THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 31, Season 10
Sunday, April 5, 2020
Host: Mike Le Couteur
Guests: Minister Marco Mendicino, Quebec Premier François Legault,
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault,
Mercedes Stephenson, Dr. Ali Mokdad
Location: Ottawa
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “The government alone cannot win this fight. We all have to answer the call of duty.”
Finance Minister Bill Morneau: “And we have taken unprecedented measures.”
Quebec Premier François Legault: “…taken measures to limit travelling in the north of Quebec. We are also one of the places that test the most in the world.”
Health Minister Patty Hajdu: “There is no way to beat a global pandemic if we’re actually not willing to work together as a globe. No country is an island.”
Unidentified: “9/11 didn’t have this many calls.”
Unidentified: “They’re essentially already at capacity.”
President Donald Trump: “The peak in fatalities will not arrive for another two weeks.”
Mike Le Couteur: It’s Sunday, April 5th. I’m Mike Le Couteur, and this is The West Block.
Over 1 million infected, dire situations in assisted living complexes, uncertain supply chains, and a lack of protective equipment: COVID-19 continues to wreak havoc globally and here at home.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “Governments of all orders across the country are stepping up, to fulfill their responsibilities to Canadians. Canada hasn’t seen this type of civic mobilization since the Second World War. These are the biggest economic measures in our lifetimes to defeat a threat to our health. These historic measures will support Canadians to stay home to defeat COVID-19.”
And joining us now, from Toronto, is the Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino. Thanks for joining us. First off, while the U.S. ordered 3M not to ship those N95 masks to one of its closest allies, Canada, your government had to turn around and get a shipment from China, a country where our diplomatic relations have been frosty. So, I’ve got to ask you: Are we negotiating with any other nations at this point, to try and get more of those masks?
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: Well, we have put in place a very progressive plan on procurement, but let me just reiterate that the prime minister has addressed the positioning of the United States very clearly: hoarding equipment isn’t going to help anybody at this stage, especially when our economies are so interconnected, as well as our people. As prime minister has said, Canada and the United States are the closest of friends. And when we’re talking about those 3M masks, Mike, they may very well be coming off the assembly line in the United States but the materials that are in those filters are made in Canada. And so it’s not just the equipment, it’s the people. There are over a 1,000 nurses that are crossing the border from Windsor to Detroit every day. They’re doing so; they’re putting their own health at risk to save the lives of Americans. So this is in keeping with, I think, the tradition and the values that we share very closely with our friends south of the border and in the meantime, the prime minister and all within our government are going to remain engaged with the United States.
Mike Le Couteur: You say that and the prime minister did mention that on Friday that look, there are a lot of those nurses that go to the U.S. Yet, he said yesterday there’ll be no retaliation. So, is then, just a bargaining chip that we’re using in the discussions, because he brought up the fact that nurses are going to the U.S.?
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: No, what he said was that he shined a light on the example of the cooperation that exists both when it comes to procurement, as well as our two peoples who are working together to confront COVID-19. And let there be no mistake about this, we are confronting this together. And when it comes to procurement, which was at the top of your question, Minister Anand is making an historic transformation on this portfolio. We are acquiring literally millions of masks, of gloves. We’re acquiring ventilators right across the board. We’re actually putting in place a procurement system which is broken down into three parts if I can distill it for you. One is to significantly the rate at which we’re acquiring equipment and we’re doing that by tapping into the global market. We’re also significantly accelerating domestic production here. And my office, like many of my colleagues, have been flooded with local businesses who want to step up, who want to roll up their sleeves and do the hard work. And finally, we’re going to work in lockstep with provincial partners, as well as the private sector, to make sure that we are a fast-track distribution to the front line of our health care system, because that’s where it’s needed most. So, this is truly historic. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any kind of mobilization like this, and certainly when you read about it, probably not since the Second World War have we seen our country rally around this moment like it has right now.
Mike Le Couteur: But at the same time, the prime minister has been speaking about this for a couple of weeks now, getting industry to rally around. Why isn’t this happening quicker? And why do we still have to go and buy some of these things, procure some of these things from outside of our borders?
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: Well, again, I mean what we have done very quickly is tap into that global market. So we are working with countries right around the world. We are competing with many others, but we are seeing those orders come in. There will be 8 million masks that will be coming in within days. We’ve ordered 157 million on order. Those are coming in very quickly. We’re making sure that we have ventilators, gloves, other equipment, and Minister Hajdu is actually also leading a new national recruitment effort, to make sure that we’ve got the people and the professionals on the front lines of the health care system. So we’re looking at people who have retired. We’re looking at students and we’re looking to onboard them as quickly as possible, because we know that our ICUs and our hospitals and all of our first responders are just doing the most incredible work. And I just want to take a moment to thank all of them for their round-the-clock work on this, they’re literally saving lives.
Mike Le Couteur: I just wanted to change subjects just for a second. A group of temporary foreign workers in B.C., in the agricultural business, have tested positive for COVID-19. What assistances are you providing to these workers? And what’s sorts of testing are we providing for these workers or even, you know, PPEs that are given to them, because they work on the front lines of our food industry.
Mike Le Couteur: And I wanted to ask you on the question of irregular migrants after your government partially closed the border with the United States, the prime minister said that all irregular border crossers would be sent back to the U.S., something the opposition has been asking for, for years, frankly. Does this mean that Roxham Road will now be closed for good? Or will people be allowed to once again, cross there once this entire crisis is over?
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: Well look, what we have in place right now is interim agreement with the assurance to the United States that those that are directed back will get due process. And this is in keeping with our values and our principles around refugees. We have the greatest asylum system in the world. Canada’s reputation on this is sterling and I want to make it clear to your viewers that the reason we have this interim agreement in place is to ensure the safety of Canadians and this interim agreement is consistent with the limitation of the movement of people across international borders and even domestically right now. That’s the rationale for this agreement, and we will continue to ensure that those that are directed back will get the due process that they are entitled to, according to our law and the United States law.
Mike Le Couteur: So, not clear whether or not this is going to be in place for good then.
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: Well we remain engaged with the United States in those negotiations, as I say. Right now what we have in place is an interim agreement in the context of the non-essential travel restrictions that are in place with the United States, for the purposes of Canadians—keeping Canadians safe. That’s the rationale for this agreement and obviously, we will continue to partner with the United States to ensure that the rights of refugees are respected, as well as the health and safety of all Canadians, which is of course, our paramount concern.
Mike Le Couteur: Minister, I appreciate you taking the time. Unfortunately, we’re going to have to leave it there for today, Minister Marco Mendicino from Toronto. Thanks so much for joining us today, I appreciate it.
Minister of Immigration Refugees and Citizenship Marco Mendicino: Thank you, take care.
Mike Le Couteur: Still to come, Mercedes Stephenson will talk to one of the leading modeling experts in the U.S. on data projections. But first, Quebec is the epicentre for the new coronavirus here in Canada and officials there are calling on the police to act. We’ll ask the deputy premier, why?
Quebec Premier François Legault: “First we freed 6,000 beds for the next few weeks. We are also one of the first places in North America to close non-essential businesses. We are also one of the places that test the most in the world.”
Mike Le Couteur: Welcome back. That was Quebec Premier François Legault on measures his government has implemented to slow the impact of COVID-19. Quebec is now the epicentre for Canada, with the highest concentration in Montreal. And last week, Quebec positioned police on bridges between Ottawa and Gatineau to stop non-essential travellers from crossing into Quebec.
Joining me now live from Sainte-Foy, Quebec is Geneviève Guilbault. She’s the deputy premier of Quebec and the minister of public safety. Thanks so much for joining us. The first question I want to ask you is late last week your government reached out and asked your federal counterparts to send Canadian forces to Northern Quebec to help smaller communities with COVID-19. How many military members do you need and what will they be doing?
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: Yes, we did ask the help of the Rangers, which are a branch of the Canadian Armed Forces that are based in northern Quebec. So we asked for their help to help our health minister, to make more testing or to help all the efforts that are being made in the northern communities, because as you know, they are more vulnerable communities. They are isolated and they are less equipped than other communities in the province to face the challenge of the pandemic. So we did ask the help and I received the answer today by the federal government that they did accept to help. So we are really grateful for that decision and I think this will be a great thing for our northern communities.
Mike Le Couteur: Now your province has also imposed some of the most restrictive measures in the country. There’s spot checks at bridges into Ontario, limiting movement between certain regions, and closing all stores on Sundays, including some grocery stores. Why did you decide to do that?
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: Yes, from the very beginning of the pandemic, Quebec has been, I think, very quickly to put up some measures to help stop the propagation of the virus. We were the first province to declare the state of health emergency on March 14th, and since then we have been doing everything in our power to make sure to protect our population. We have closed all non-essential services and businesses. We have forbidden all gatherings of people. We have asked people to basically stay home. And we have put more checkpoints in several regions to protect the population over there and avoid contact with other people from other regions where we have seen more contamination. So we have been very active. We ask people to stay united in this battle because it is really altogether that we will get through this terrible situation.
Mike Le Couteur: Now despite all those measures, though, at one point last week, Montreal’s regional director for public health said Montreal was Canada’s infection hotspot. Why do you continue to refuse to close off the city from the rest of the province?
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: We are not there yet, because we think that Montreal has enough tools to face the situation as we speak, but as you know, the situation evolves every day, so we will see what we will be doing in the next coming days and weeks. But for now, we are not there yet. We have asked Montreal to declare the state of health emergency so they have more tools to face the situation. They have the situation under control. We work closely with the mayor, Mrs. Plante and the local director of public health, Mrs. Drouin, and we are always collaborating because everything changes so fast that we have to be very reactive. And we are, but the situation is under control. Of course, we ask people to respect the rules. We depend on the compliance of everyone. It is important that everyone complies and follows the rules.
Mike Le Couteur: But on that, Premier Legault has used some pretty tough language in talking about people who continue to gather in groups, saying that they actually deserve the fine of $6 thousand dollars since people are still ignoring public health directions. Will your province move to either increase fines or consider arresting people who are not staying home?
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: First thing I want to say is that the vast majority of Quebecers respect the rules, which I want to thank them for, because it is really important. But there are still some people who don’t, and we already have been given some fines between $1 thousand and $6 thousand. And anyone who doesn’t follows the rules at the moment, exposes himself or herself, to such a fine. We have to be more severe with people who still don’t think that the situation is critical, and so that’s what we have been doing from the beginning. But yes, police officers will be more severe than ever. If you don’t follow the rules, you will be sanctioned.
Mike Le Couteur: So more severe, then what could happen? Could they be threatened with some jail time?
Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: They will receive a fine between $1 thousand and $6 thousand dollars, as I said. This is how the law is. The law dictates the type of fine that we can give and those are the amounts of money that are in the law. But the main thing we want to say is people have to follow the rules, to follow the directives. If you don’t want sanctions, you just follow the rules. You protect yourself, you protect other people. And the virus isn’t just for other people. You can be a vector of transmission, so you have to stay home unless you have to go out for groceries or essential reasons, like for example, being tested for the virus. But if you don’t have to go out, you stay home. You wash your hands and you follow the rules that are dictated by the national public health.
Mike Le Couteur: I’ve only got 30 seconds left so just very quickly here. Are you worried that people still aren’t listening to that message, despite the threats of fines? Do you think you’ll have to take more action against people?
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Deputy Premier and Public Safety Minister Geneviève Guilbault: For now, we count on our police officers to, like I said, be more severe and don’t tolerate any infraction to the national health directives. But I beg people, the last people who still think that it is not a critical situation that we are facing, wake up and follow the rules.
Mike Le Couteur: We’ll have to leave it there. Thanks so much for joining us, Madame Guilbault. We really appreciate it.
Well coming up, a look at the modelling data for the virus south of the border. What do those numbers reveal about the dire situation in the United States?
President Donald Trump: “The same modeling also shows that by very vigorously following these guidelines, we could save more than 1 million American lives. Think of that: 1 million American lives. Our future is in our own hands.”
Mike Le Couteur: Welcome back. That was U.S. President Donald Trump telling Americans if social distancing guidelines remain for the entire month of April, the number of people affected by COVID-19 will go down.
The host of this show was in the U.S. last month and is still in self-isolation. And Mercedes, you’ve been following the modeling numbers there in the U.S.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Yeah, Mike. And as you know, the United States has more confirmed COVID-19 cases than any other country in the world. Now the Trump administration has been following modeling that was put together by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington in Seattle, and Dr. Ali Moktad—pardon me—Dr. Ali Mokdad, is a professor there. He joins us now. He was also formerly with the Centres for Disease Control. Welcome to the show, Dr. Mokdad. Thank you for making time for us.
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: My pleasure. Good morning.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Good morning. I think the question on a lot of our viewers minds is when do we expect this pandemic to peak? And how bad is it likely to get?
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: It’s going to get bad, of course, before it gets better. But our advice has been, let’s wait and see what the data is telling us and let’s make a decision based on the science at hand and not a political decision. Right now, what we see form our models, there is a peak around mid-April and it varies from one state to another. And we see that by the end of May, mid-June, the cases will go down to a normal level that we can handle here in the United States and we can say that the pandemic has passed here. But until then, we should not relax and we should adhere to these measures to save lives and to reduce the pressure on our medical institutions and allow our physicians to provide the best care for those who need it when they need it.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: President Trump has talked about removing social distancing measures before the time you’re recommending. What would be the consequence of that?
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: If we remove them before it is safe to remove them, this virus may surge again and most of us are susceptible for it if it comes back again, and it remains circulating will end up delaying that period even longer. So what we’re saying, right now we told our employees here at the institute to stay at home until the April as well. But we told everybody that we will revisit these decisions in mid-April and we’ll see what’s happening. If we are adhering to these messages and all of us are doing our part of staying at home, yes, we can relax our measures, perhaps, at the end of April. But all of this depends on how much of the population is really adhering to these messages, because as you well know, it’s not enough to say we put messages in place or the recommendations in place. It has to also be adopted by the population and they have to remain at home in order to help all of us to deal with this pandemic.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Now some people have said well, why not just have everyone wear masks and then we wouldn’t have to practice as much social distancing. What do you think of that argument?
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: Now there are two things against this argument. The first one is, you know, we don’t have enough masks right now for those people who need them. So if we go and tell people go and buy a mask, we’re taking it away from the people who really need it and we shouldn’t do that. This is a big mistake at this time. Also, the second part, we are concerned if we tell people to wear a mask, there is a false sense of security. And Americans start, you know, because this is the culture we have, we like to go out. We don’t want to be at home. We are afraid that there’ll be a sense security—a sense of security out there and people will start getting out and that’s not what we want at this stage, where we know the epidemic is still going up and we haven’t reached our peak. We really want people to stay at home right now.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: I know you’ve mostly done the numbers through the United States but you’re a global expert. Do you expect that we’ll see similar infection, hospitalization and death rates here in Canada, to what you’re projecting in the United States?
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: So if Canadians see what’s happening in New York and start practicing safe distancing and stay at home and don’t get out of their houses unless they have to, and when they do get out of their houses for one reason or another, practice safe distancing and stay away from each other, we would reduce the impact in Canada of this disease, mortality, of course. And the most important part, reduce the demand on our medical systems that would be strained by this disease because it’s requiring more medical care than what we have seen in previous flu or diseases. To give you an example, patients on COVID-19 require more time on ventilators when they need it. So it’s like two weeks to three weeks. And then like before that, people used to stay on a ventilator two, three days. So this is a deadly disease. One, we don’t have a medication for it. We don’t have a vaccine for it. All what we can do right now is really to stay at home, prevent the circulation of this virus, allowing the medical system to be ready and prepared for it, and allow these measures that we have put in place for distancing, to give that effect on the disease and its projection, and to save lives. And of course, the most important part, you know, we’re now in a phase that we are responding to a disease, but we also should look ahead in a phase of recovery of this disease. And we want to come back, our businesses. We want our hospitals to allow elective surgeries to come. We want other things to be practiced. Like now, we have patients who need vaccines. They need to come, bring their kids. We have people who need to do tests for diabetes and so on. We’re saying stay at home. So we want to go back to normal as soon as possible.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Dr. Mokdad, we just have a few seconds left and I want to ask you very quickly. The Canadian government has been criticized for not releasing its national modeling for COVID-19. You do that kind of modeling, do you think that it’s useful to release those numbers publicly to the population and governments should do that?
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: Yes, totally agree. We need to release them because we need to inform the public. Our people, you know, are smart enough and there is evidence once they know what’s coming, they’ll help us more to adhere and stay at home. We’re about to release these numbers for Europe over the weekend and then you should be able to see them next week.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Okay, we have to wrap it up there, but thank you so much for your time, sir.
Dr. Ali Mokdad, Washington University: Thank you.
Mercedes Stephenson, Ottawa Bureau Chief and Host of The West Block: Well there you have it, Mike, a recommendation that the Canadian government should be releasing those numbers.
Mike Le Couteur: And thank you very much for that, Mercedes, really appreciate it.
And that’s all the time we have for today. Thanks so much for joining us, everyone. For The West Block, I’m Mike Le Couteur. We leave you today with a few positive messages from across the country, to help us all get through these difficult times. Stay safe, everyone.
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Additional West Block programming aired in some markets on Sunday:
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 31, Season 9
Sunday, April 5, 2020
Host: Mike Le Couteur
Guests: Minister Mary Ng, MPP Natalia Kusendova, Professor Steve Joorden
Location: Ottawa
Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: “So to help businesses keep their staff employed, we’re bringing in a 75 per cent wage subsidy.”
Ontario Premier Doug Ford: “If you’re struggling, please reach out. During these difficult days, we all need to stick together.”
Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe: “What we are doing so far is working, but that will change if we let our guard down too soon.”
Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister: “Understand that previous generations fought and gave up their lives to protect their fellow citizens. Young people did their part, they stood up and they did their part. And you have the chance to do your part now.”
CMA President Dr. Sandy Buchman: “We really feel that we’re at a crisis point, and it’s causing physicians, nurses and other health care workers on the front line immense anxiety and additional stress that they don’t need.”
Finance Minister Bill Morneau: “This is the largest economic program in Canada’s history. We estimate this measure to protect Canadian jobs will cost $71 billion and reduce the cost of the Canada Emergency Response Benefit, which we introduced just last week.”
Mike Le Couteur: It’s Sunday, April 5th. I’m Mike Le Couteur, and this is The West Block.
Interest-free loans, wage subsidies of 75 per cent, deffered payments on the GST and HST, now all of those measures announced by the government last week are supposed to help small and medium-sized businesses stay afloat and help workers stay on the payroll. It’s welcomed, but many businesses say it’s simply not enough. They say they can’t afford to pay back loans and they need rent relief now. So, is that on the table?
Joining me now is Mary Ng, the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade. Minister, your government has announced billions of dollars are being put aside to help small and medium-sized businesses affected by COVID-19, including a 75 per cent wage subsidy for qualifying businesses, for up to three months. Now many of those businesses say they can’t wait the additional six weeks it’ll take to get that money. What is holding up getting those funds out the door right now?
Minister of Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: Well thank you, Mike, and I want to thank the Canadian businesses who are doing some extraordinary measures, Canadians who are doing extraordinary measures to plank the curve here in Canada. And the measures that we have put out are in response to what we heard from businesses. Businesses asked us to give them some help so that they can keep employees on their payroll, help them with the operating funds that they need to operate, and to help keep their costs low. So that’s what we’ve done here. And with respect to the wage subsidy, we said it’ll take about three to six weeks. We hope that the six weeks is on the outside of that timeframe, but that I want to assure Canadian businesses we’re working as hard, literally around the clock, to make sure that these measures are there for them, all across the country.
Mike Le Couteur: Now we know this is unprecedented and so you guys are trying to figure this out as we go along and get the money out as quickly as possible, but when you talk to them, what are they saying they need right now, at this moment, to stay afloat?
Minister of Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: Well I talked to—I’ll give you a couple of examples—to the restaurant owner who we see literally in community after community, who are staying closed right now so that they can do their part to plank the curve. They’re staying closed but they want to—they want to be primed for recovery when it is safe to do so. And one of the things that’s really important is to be able to keep their employees. So helping them with a 75 per cent wage subsidy, which is to pay 75 per cent of an employee’s wage for the next three months, is something that has helped business owners. Restaurant owners that I’ve talked to said that it made the difference between making the decision to lay off staff, in some instances, rehiring some staff, so that they are primed for recovery. And we know that the single most important thing for recovery is the people in your business and that’s what this wage subsidy will help to do.
Mike Le Couteur: But they’re—a lot of businesses operate on pretty tight margins and sometimes on a month-to-month basis. Do you have a sense of how many businesses simply aren’t going to be able to remain operational if this goes on for another two to three months and may not, actually be there for the recovery period?
Minister of Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: Well, that’s why we introduced measures to help with the operating funds and cash flow for businesses. That’s the other thing that they talked to us about. So a $40 thousand dollar interest-free loan for businesses, for small businesses, to weather they through this period. And that is accessible through your financial institution. We’ve worked hard with Canadian banks and financial institutions like credit unions so that you can go to your financial institution and look for that bridging support and that help. And it’s interest-free, and shouldn’t you be able to pay it back by December of 2022, then $10 thousand dollars, or 25 per cent of that, will be forgiven. So these are a range of measures and the business owners and the businesses I’ve been talking to said, you know, they appreciated that they now have a number of things that they are looking at so that they can make the decisions that they need to make going forward, to help deal with what is a very difficult situation across this country.
Mike Le Couteur: Now, I know it’s difficult to sort of project how much longer this will be, it could be two months, could be three months, but how much more is your government preparing already, right now, to look at the next step if it does go two to three months, or even beyond, because you need to be prepared now, to deliver those in the next month or so, so that businesses know what’s coming.
Minister of Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: Well, we’re going to continue to listen to businesses, as I talk to businesses every day, many, many businesses and my colleagues do as well. We’re going to continue to work together. I want to assure Canadians businesses that nothing is more important to me than helping them and supporting them through this very difficult period, and we’re going to need to keep working together. The work is not done yet, we’re going to have to keep looking at measures that are going to help our businesses through this period. What is the job we’re trying to do here? We’re trying to save jobs. We’re trying to save our businesses. We’re trying to give the businesses the supports and the tools that they need so that during this very difficult period, they are able to weather it so that we can be primed for a recovery. And we’re going to keep working hard with our businesses to get through this.
Mike Le Couteur: One thing that a lot of small business leaders are asking for is rent assistance. The wage subsidies and loans are a good first step, but they’re saying that if they can’t afford to pay the rent, that kind of assistance is not going to actually keep their doors open. So, I want to know, is your government ready with some sort of a program for rent assistance for these businesses?
Minister of Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng: Well, that’s a very good question. And what I would say to businesses across the country is look, nothing is off the table. We have worked with you. We’re going to continue to work with you. But one of the things that businesses talked to me about is the help that they need to have those operating funds and the cash flow. So for the small businesses, the $40 thousand dollar interest-free loan is going to really help. For larger businesses who need a larger size, these loans go up to $6.25 million dollars. We’ve unlocked billions of dollars of lending capability by our financial institutions, and look, I just had a conversation with a bank manager, who has been a bank manager for 30 years and he said this to me. He said, you know, he has lent to a lot of businesses and one example he gave to me was a small business, many, many years ago, who no longer is that small business, but through the years when difficulties have occurred, he worked with his client and he will do that again this time around. And the lending support and capability that we have unlocked it going to help those financial institutions do that to support our businesses, and I want to assure Canadian businesses across the country, this is really important to me. I am going to continue to work. Our team is going to continue to work and our government is going to continue to do what is necessary to support you through this very difficult period.
Mike Le Couteur: Minister, we’re going to have to leave it there. Thanks so much for joining us today, we appreciate it.
Up next, back on the front lines. We’ll find out why one politician has returned to the ER in the middle of the pandemic.
CMA President Dr. Sandy Buchman: “We need better information and we need transparency as well as the supplies. We could relieve a lot of the anxiety if physicians and other front line workers knew what was coming down the pipeline.”
Mike Le Couteur: Welcome back. That was CMA President Sandy Buchman. Now one of his provincial colleagues, MPP Natalia Kusendova, was a registered nurse before she was elected to the provincial legislature, two years ago. She recently returned to the front lines as the COVID-19 pandemic hit her province, putting a strain on the health care system.
So, why did she decide to go back to 12-hour shifts in the ER? We’ll ask her right now. She’s joining us from Mississauga. Thanks so much for joining us. I just wanted to ask you, you’re doing three 12-hour shifts at the Etobicoke General Hospital. Why would you decide to go back?
Mike Le Couteur: So what was it like? I mean, did you have to shake off any of the rust, or did you just get right back into it?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: So, I got right back into it and I went in early enough. I went—the hospitals weren’t too, too busy yet, which allowed me to actually practice some of my skills and refresh up on some of my nursing knowledge. I also participated in a simulation, conducted by Dr. Hanzla Tariq and some of the leadership at Etobicoke ER, and that was great because I got to practice in a safe environment: a code blue scenario and an intubation scenario on a presumptive COVID patient. So that was really good for me to train that muscle memory so that when I need to use it in real life, I’ll be prepared.
Mike Le Couteur: And it’s got to be a unique perspective for an elected official. I mean, what are you hearing from fellow nurses and doctors on the front lines in terms of what they need to deal with this pandemic?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: Absolutely, it is a very unique perspective, and of course, everyone has been talking about PPE. So PPE is what we need as front line health care professionals and I know that our government has done its due diligence in procuring millions and millions of PPE, together with our partners at the federal level; however, the question is of when these supplies are coming, because, you know, there are different needs, different local needs, depending on which hospital the front line staff is working at. And so, we’re all waiting anxiously for those supplies to arrive.
Mike Le Couteur: So how are you getting that message back to Premier Ford? I would assume that you’re having regular conversations, but do you think that other political ideas have a full understanding of the lack of those personal protective equipment (PPE) and all of the other challenges on the front lines that you guys are facing now?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: Absolutely. Premier Ford has been very gracious, and we’ve been in constant communication also with Minister Elliot. We’ve had several phone calls, so I am communicating directly from the front lines to our leadership team. And I’ll give you a very specific example. There is a local business, a local print shop that has stepped up and produced a prototype for a face shield that Premier Ford has personally picked up for me and has now given it back to the command table to see if it fits all the standards and requirements to get it quickly approved through Health Canada so that we can get this protective face shield produced locally here in Mississauga and distributed to our local hospitals. So the premier has been extremely, extremely proactive, even getting his own truck to go pick up some supplies from a local business owner who was donating 100 thousand masks. So premier is right there on the front lines with the rest of us.
Mike Le Couteur: So are you concerned about being back on the front lines knowing that you have this sort of other public life. And what precautions are taking so that you can still do both jobs as an MPP and a nurse?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: Well, so I am going back for three times a week and my office is fully functional, virtually. I have a daily call with my staff, Monday to Friday. We respond to phone calls and e-mails, and so I still make myself very available to my constituents. We are running a local grocery delivery service to seniors in my riding, which has been very successful. And so, you know, I’m there in both of those roles, as an MPP and as an RN. But I think right now, my skills as an RN are very needed in the front lines and especially in the coming weeks, I think, you know, I will be spending more time in the emerge rather than, you know, working from home and communicating with my constituents. Not to say that my staff—my staff are wonderful and they’ve been doing a great job and they will continue to run my office very smoothly.
Mike Le Couteur: It’s got to be a tough balance, but given your experience as a nurse and what you’re now seeing being back on the front lines, what are you surprised the most about going back into medicine during this pandemic?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: So, I think the protocols that are in place at my hospital, they’re excellent. So we have a separate entrance for staff, where staff are screened on a daily basis. Before they enter the hospital, they’re asked questions about having symptoms or recent travel, and only when they answer no to all the questions, they’re allowed to go into the hospital. They have to perform hand hygiene right in front of those security officers there, put on a mask and then proceed to the hospital. We also have a separate protocol for our COVID-suspected patients. So, anyone going into the emerge and exhibiting some symptoms of COVID and passing the screen, then they would be escorted through a separate entrance, away from the other patients and there are very specific COVID protocols. We also have specific COVID protocols for running code blue situations, which I have mentioned previously. So I’m not surprised that my hospital is prepared and is teaching staff, and I think they’re doing an excellent job. And it’s good to do it early on, again, before we see that surge that we’re all expecting in the coming weeks.
Mike Le Couteur: How worried are you about that surge?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: You know what? I’m as worried as anyone else, as worried as our premier and as our minister of health. We are seeing the devastating images coming from Italy, from France, but even closer to home, from the U.S.A. So we are really urging the public to do their part, to ensure that we don’t—we do not have that same level of devastation here in Ontario. But I think definitely, it’s, you know, in the back of everyone’s mind and we are silently, anxiously awaiting for this surge to arrive.
Mike Le Couteur: I’ve only got 20 seconds left, so I just wanted to ask you. As a nurse, what would you tell yourself as a politician, needs to be done now?
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: Right now, just keep on continuing the procurement of PPE. I think this I sour number one priority and as well as the procurement of ventilators, which we have done in Ontario, 10 thousand ventilators coming our way that are sourced locally. So those two are really, top priorities.
Mike Le Couteur: We appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much and thanks for going back to the front lines, we appreciate it Ms. Kusendova.
MPP Natalia Kusendova, Mississauga Centre: My pleasure.
Mike Le Couteur: Coming up, some expert advice on managing the mental stress of COVID-19.
Ontario Premier Doug Ford: “Social isolation can be hard on people. And my message to everyone watching today is this: You’re not alone, we’re listening. We care.”
Mike Le Couteur: Welcome back. That was Ontario Premier Doug Ford addressing mental health issues many people are facing with this new coronavirus. Now one professor at the University of Toronto recently launched a free online course to help people manage their mental health.
And joining me now from Toronto is Professor Steve Joorden. He’s a psychology professor at University of Toronto. Thanks so much for joining us. First of all, tens of thousands of people have registered for this course. What led you to pull all this together?
Professor Steve Joorden, University of Toronto: Yeah, well I mean one of the things I say in the course is that when we’re feeling anxious, and I think just about all of us are feeling anxious right now, myself included, we—our body kind of gives us this command to do something. Usually it wants us to fight or flee. In this condition, you try to figure out what that is. And we can’t really flee so fight. How do you fight back? And, you know, for me, it was just this is something I know a little bit about and I can help people kind of understand their anxiety response and how to manage it, which really isn’t that hard to do. So I just wanted to share some of that and hope it would help people as they face the challenge that we’re all in right now.
Mike Le Couteur: Now you say it’s not hard to do, but so many people are dealing with this now and they don’t know what to do, so give us a bit of a preview of your course. What kind of advice is most useful to people during these difficult times?
Professor Steve Joorden, University of Toronto: Well, I have one part and it’s a little complex to get into, but it describes the actual fight or flee system and how it arises, and talks about something called guided relaxation that you can actually learn to kind of conjure relaxation and put your body into that state. And you cannot be both anxious and relaxed at the same time, so if you can really learn to put yourself into a relaxed state, you can kind of turn off anxiety. But, you know, that’s the sort of fancy psychological technical that I try to teach people as they go, but a more sort of mundane approach is to literally pay attention to what activities and stimuli in the environment do to you and manage them. So for example just a quick one: the news, you know, your bread and butter. We’re all really hungry for information right now. In fact, we can kind of get addicted to it, but the news also makes us anxious. It tells us about the threat. And so some of us have the news on all day, bad idea, budget your news. Maybe have something funny after you watch the news, something to bring your mind somewhere else. And there are other stimuli and other things you can do that will actually help your anxious state. So I try to get people to think about that. What are these various things? How do they affect my mental health?
Mike Le Couteur: And how difficult is it to manage that when you consider, you know, the numbers and what we’re seeing either from different countries or even here within Canada, when we see the projections or the trajectory of these curves how can really affect people. And how are people supposed to manage all of that, because they say information is power, but if they have too much of it and governments maybe aren’t releasing it because they’re concerned about that, how should people manage that themselves?
Professor Steve Joorden, University of Toronto: It is, you know, we use this word “unprecedented” more than we’ve ever used it before but it is. And so the system, our basic system, was meant to deal with a bear stepping in front of us, you know, a very defined threat and we either fight it or flee. We’ve got this vague, very powerful thing that’s threatening multiple parts of our life, which is why we all feel so anxious. But, I mean one answer is things like distraction. So if you live in it, which you probably do, and I kind of do now that we’re marinating ourselves in all this stuff, it’s really tough but you have to learn to say okay, I got the information I need and now I’m going to pull my mind somewhere else. And there are ways to do that. There are certain stimuli that you might find engaging. There are things like learning and bettering yourself while under isolation. Maybe taking a course on something, trying to bring some normalcy to your life. And yeah, it’s a difficult thing to do and every time we go back to this current system, that anxiety is going to come back. So it certainly isn’t—you know if you’re trying to get rid of anxiety, it’s more like how to live with that annoying roommate that you have. And we all have this annoying roommate anxiety that keeps popping its head up now and then, so how can we learn to live with it. And part of it is, just not have that roommate in our face all the time.
Mike Le Couteur: And that roommate, unfortunately, rears its ugly head so often and one of the issues is that we need to hear from the roommate, for instance, and maybe I’m taking the roommate analogy a little too far here, but you know, the government continues to say that physical distancing is so important and they’re not really giving us—just because they don’t have it—that you know, any light at the end of the tunnel, saying that this distancing is going to last possibly for months, weeks for sure. So, how difficult is it for people to manage that stress with so much of the unknown that they don’t know how long this is going to go for?
Professor Steve Joorden, University of Toronto: So first, let me say thank you for using the term physical distancing. It should be our new term. We should be socially cuddling, I guess, but socially cuddling, while physically distancing. I think that’s the real change. One of our most basic ways of dealing with anxiety and grief and trauma is through emotional connections with other human beings. And this is a huge challenge now because, you know, for example, the ultimate form and that would be the hug. And we know, psychologically, hugs do a lot of good. But of course, we can only hug so many people now. And so we have to learn how to emotionally connect with other people. I think we have to learn this new way of being, and realize that yes this will end, but it may not be the end. There are pandemics on a regular basis. This could be seasonal. We should be looking at this as a way of learning this way of being, because yes, it’ll pass but we may come back to this way of being, at times. And so learning how we can kind of redefine our life at home, how we can manage all of these stresses as we go. We will find that we can get through it. Humans are much more resilient. My parents went through the war as young children in Holland and I hear the stories and it just—you know it used to make my mind go whatever. But when a world is as it is, and once you get settled into that, it’s amazing how resilient humans can be. But some coping techniques along the way can really help that along.
Mike Le Couteur: And I hope that a lot of people sign up to your course and that it helps a lot of people in these times where we just don’t know what’s going to happen and we need to deal with this anxiety. We’re going to have to leave it there, unfortunately, professor. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Professor Steve Joorden, University of Toronto: Thank you. Have a great day.
Mike Le Couteur: And that’s all the time we have for today. Thanks so much for joining us. We want to leave you today with a bit of positivity, a look at the acts of kindness we’ve seen across the country, as Canadians come together during this time of crisis. For The West Block, I’m Mike Le Couteur. Stay safe, everyone.
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