West Block Transcript: Season 6 episode 18

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 18, Season 6

Sunday, January 8, 2017

Host: Vassy Kapelos

Guest Interviews: David Lametti, Minister Gaétan Barrette, Gary Walbourne

Location: Ottawa

On this Sunday: Making the pitch. Ottawa is taking its message to U.S. Members of Congress asking them to keep doing business with their northern neighbours amid rising protectionism under a Trump presidency.

Then, health care holdup: Three Maritime Provinces have a deal with the federal government on health, but the rest of the provinces want more negotiations and more money.

Then, post-traumatic stress disorder in the military: Report after report shows we are not doing enough. Why can’t the government get this right?

It’s Sunday, January 8^th. I’m Vassy Kapelos, and this is The West Block.

In less than two weeks, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States and already he’s forcing companies to keep their operations at home or face tariffs if they relocate.

Last week the Canadian government began appealing directly to politicians south of the border. What’s at stake? Well take a listen:

Donald Trump: “My agenda will be based on a simple core principle: putting America first.”

Vassy Kapelos: U.S. President-elect Donald Trump insists one edict will guide his time in office: Buy American and Hire American.

Donald Trump: “And we are going to make America great again!”

Vassy Kapelos: He’s promised to kill what could have been the world’s biggest free trade deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And he wants to renegotiate NAFTA.

Donald Trump: “We will renegotiate NAFTA, stand up to China and stop the job killing Trans-Pacific Partnership. We will do it very, very quickly. It is a catastrophe.”

Vassy Kapelos: So what does it mean for us? It’s a guessing game at this point. But what is certain, the stakes are high; $2.4 billion worth of stuff crosses the border between our two countries every single day. And we export so much to the U.S., it amounts to nearly a third of Canada’s GDP.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “There is no relationship in the entire world quite like the Canada-U.S. relationship. Our great countries have been friends for a long time. We grew up together and have overcome many shared challenges over the course of our history.”

David MacNaughton:  We know that we are better off when we tackle challenges together. That’s why Canada stands beside you, ready to work with you to make all of our citizens’ lives better, safer and more prosperous.

Vassy Kapelos: Joining me now is David Lametti, Parliamentary Secretary to the International Trade Minister. Minister Lametti—I’m sorry, Mr. Lametti, thanks so much for joining us. That video at the end of the primer featuring the prime minister and Canada’s ambassador to the United States, David McNaughton, it appealed to members of the United States Congress to continue trade and economic ties with Canada. I’m wondering how worried are you that those ties are in jeopardy with Donald Trump as president?

David Lametti: Well I don’t know that ‘worried’ is the right word. We are pretty confident about our trading relationship with the United States. It’s important to our economy. It’s important to their economy. You know, you’ve heard these numbers already but 35 States count Canada as their number one trade destination. Another 13 States have Canada in their top three export destinations. That’s almost—that’s 48 States out of 50 that have a significant critical trading relationship with Canada, $2.4 billion Canadian in trade crossing the border every day. So it’s a positive trading relationship. It’s a good trading relationship, and we’re trying to send that message across to our American friends that this something that needs to be maintained and enhanced.

Vassy Kapelos: We have seen though this week, for example, last week President-elect Trump make good on what he’s saying with that Ford plant, you know, threatening big tax increases for companies that take their business outside of American borders. Have you ever seen anything like this before?

David Lametti: Well, I mean I think it’s fair to say that this is a—and Mr. Trump has his own style. This is a different way of governing. But again, I’m not going to speculate about what he is going to do or not going to do, it’s premature. We will sit down with Mr. Trump and establish a good trading relationship with him and good political relationship with him. Once again, the facts are there about the nature of the Canada-U.S. relationship. It’s a strong relationship at a number of different levels, both obviously in economic terms. I’ve just given you those statistics, but also in political terms, it’s our greatest friend and ally. There are a number of personal relationships across the Canada-U.S. border and we’re going to continue to maintain that. So yes, he has his style, but we think that the relationship that we have built over the course of our collective histories is far more important than any one person’s style.

Vassy Kapelos: Beyond that video though, is there a definitive plan on how you’re going to get that message across? I’m sure you’re familiar with that, you know, the Opposition charges that there is really no plan to tackle whatever comes your way with the new administration. What is the plan?

David Lametti: Well I’m not going to discuss what our plan might or might not be.

Vassy Kapelos: You don’t think Canadians though sir—

David Lametti: That would be—

Vassy Kapelos: You don’t think Canadians are interested to know how you’re going to protect this vital economic relationship.

David Lametti: Well, I think we have said from the outset that we are going to work hard to continue to reinforce our trading relationship, our political relationship with the United States. We’re going to continue to keep the facts out on the table. We’re willing to sit down and look at aspects of our relationship in terms of how to improve them. The ambassador has said we’re prepared to tweak NAFTA in order to improve it, but it’s a fundamentally good relationship. We have continued. We haven’t stopped promoting Canadian interests. We’re going to continue to promote Canadian interests through the old administration into the new administration. And I think Canadians should be reassured that we are going to continue to maintain a positive relationship with our American friends and allies, and we’ll do everything in our means to maintain that.

Vassy Kapelos: Let me ask you about NAFTA, you just mentioned it. What does tweaking that agreement mean?

David Lametti: Well the agreements 22 years old. There have already been changes made at least 10 or 11 times over the course of the past 22 years to improve it. We’ll sit down as with any trade relationship and move forward with it. Things have changed over 22 years. Things that weren’t envisaged 22 years ago are now—e-commerce is probably the best example. But there are things that we hadn’t thought of 22 years ago that we need to think about now and we’re prepared to sit down with our American partners in good faith using the facts before us of the importance of this trading relationship, the importance of maintaining it and the importance of improving it. That’s what tweaking means, is continually maintaining the relationship and continually maintaining and updating the treaty.

Vassy Kapelos: Beyond e-commerce though, is there other specific examples of things you’re willing to put on the table or our country be willing to put on the table?

David Lametti: Again, it’s too speculative at this stage to discuss what our negotiating strategy would be. And frankly, I wouldn’t discuss anyway, in public. We’re not going to negotiate this thing in public. But again, I would just point back to the positive nature of the relationship as it’s existed, the positive nature of NAFTA and the positive economic benefits that it’s brought to Canada over the past two decades.

Vassy Kapelos: And just really quickly to wrap up. Have you or the minister had any meetings so far with any officials in the future Trump administration or have they reached out to you to meet in the future?

David Lametti: Contacts have been ongoing and contacts will continue over the course of a variety of different dossiers, and that’s all I’m prepared to say at this time.

Vassy Kapelos: Thanks very much for joining us Mr. Lametti, I appreciate it. Happy New Year.

David Lametti: Thank you very much. Happy New Year.

Vassy Kapelos: Still to come, many Canadian veterans are being left behind when it comes to mental health. What can be done? But first, why won’t some provinces take the money Ottawa is offering up for mental health and home care?

Minister Jane Philpott: “The offer that we put before our counterparts today had the potential to be transformative that really could have made a difference in the lives of Canadians. We put $11 billion over the next 10 years in making sure that Canadians could have better access to home care, that they could have better access to mental health care. We remain committed to those concerns to support Canadians in some way. We were disappointed that the provinces and territories did not feel that they could accept this offer.”

Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. That was Federal Health Minister Jane Philpott speaking late last month. There’s no question provinces need more support for seniors and people struggling with mental illness, so why are some leaving billions of dollars on the table? Why not take the money even with strings attached? To explain why, I’m joined by Quebec Health Minister Gaétan Barrette. Minister thanks for being here. Minister Barrette, does your province need this money? Why leave it on the table?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: We didn’t leave any money on the table in the way that they left the table. We are ready and still ready to negotiate and they don’t want to negotiate. Actually, they’re patronizing provinces and territories, and I don’t think that’s the way to go in this federation.

Vassy Kapelos: How are they patronizing the provinces? What do you mean by that?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: Well first of all, it’s not for them to tell us exactly how to spend money. It is a constitutional responsibility that goes to province and territories, not to the federal government. And as a funding partner, they are funding the system as we are in provinces. As a partner, they should be at least at the same level as we are and what they’re putting on the table is a decrease from 23 per cent to 20 per cent of total funding of health care in this country. So this is not a proper partnership in my view.

Vassy Kapelos: Were you expecting that type of partnership when this government was elected?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: Well, let’s go about the election. That’s a good question. They were elected by promising, and I repeat, they promised $3 billion in this term for home care. What Bill Morneau and Minister Philpott came up with was $1 billion for home care, one third of their electoral promise. And let’s take for the next year. They were supposed to put on the table $1 billion. Next year, they’re putting on the table $200 million for home care. Home care is about seniors. It’s about handicap people. It’s about autistic patients. It’s about caregivers. They’re saying to Canadians those Canadians that I’m sorry, we in Ottawa believe that our promise will not be fulfilled and you will not have access to that. I’ll give you an example. In Quebec alone, next year they’re talking about 100,000 patients who will not have access to home care because of that broken promise. Country-wide, it’s half a million people. That’s exactly what the Liberals are doing. And this to us is wrong. Simply said it is wrong, and we are ready to negotiate their $3 billion offer for four years was a good starting point. They should have added money for mental illnesses above that. What they’re doing is simply stripping money away from home care to target it to other issues and this is a political mascaraed in numbers and that is wrong.

Vassy Kapelos: But while you’re taking that stand, I guess we’ve seen in the time since those meetings fell apart in December, three provinces: Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador have done sort of side deals with the federal government. How unanimous is the sentiment among the remaining provinces?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: Well at least we are unanimous in the way that those three provinces had stated that okay we will sign a bilateral agreement, and if other provinces enter to do better, we will have the same thing. I need to remind everybody that the 10 provinces and territories still solidly together in that negotiation process. We represent 92 per cent of Canada’s population. I repeat, 92 per cent. This is not a majority, that’s almost everybody in this country and we are facing huge challenges in terms, especially of home care and other issues. And at this point in time, Ottawa is simply offering us to lower their participation in funding. This is simply wrong. We’re talking about not only sustainability; we’re also talking about development of needed services that will increase over the next 10 years period time. So clearly there has to be a better agreement to be put in place. And for that, we need to negotiate. We did not have one single second of negotiations with Ottawa since they’ve been elected on health care. That’s the problem. We’ve had—what did we see in the past year? We see a whole year of negotiations about climate changes. Okay. Which is fine, but we’ve had not one second of negotiations on health care. If that’s the reason why, I say it is wrong. It’s—

Vassy Kapelos: But the federal government—sorry to interrupt sir, but the federal government—

Minister Gaétan Barrette: That’s okay.

Vassy Kapelos: Bill Morneau and Jane Philpott are saying we can’t negotiate because we just don’t have the money. We saw a report this week saying that there are deficits forecast for years to come. Do you not believe what they’re saying? Do you think it’s just a bargaining chip?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: Deficits is the result of their decisions. So are they saying that they politically preferred concrete over people? Because that’s the way it sounds. If that’s their final argument, it shows that they made the wrong decisions. Because concrete is concrete. It doesn’t feel. It doesn’t talk. People are people and they do talk and they do have a voice and they do express needs that we provinces have to fulfill to the best of our capacity. And Ottawa is diminishing our capacity by lowering their part in funding. So that’s where it is wrong. For them, it’s totally unacceptable to give us that kind of argument.

Vassy Kapelos: And just finally before we go, what’s your next move? Where does this go from here? A lot of Canadians are watching and wondering and worried about their own health care and what’s going to happen. So what happens now from your perspective?

Minister Gaétan Barrette: Exactly, you’ve got it. That’s exactly the point. That’s the reason why I’m having this conversation with you and with all your viewers. They have to be aware of what’s happening. We have a broken promise for health care. It will impact seniors and caregivers at home. It’s about services that will not be developed. It is time for the population to call their MPs. It doesn’t matter which party they’re from. It is time to call their MPs, e-mail them, tweet them to tell them look, we are people. We are waiting for services. You promised services. You promised a negotiation for a long term accord. That’s not what’s happening. Actually, it is less that’s in front of us and this is about people, those that are listening to us this morning. And today, things are going the wrong way.

Vassy Kapelos: Well thank you so much for joining us minister. We’ll be watching what happens on this over the next few months. Appreciate it.

Minister Gaétan Barrette: You’re welcome. Have a good day.

Vassy Kapelos: Up next, a tragic end for a Canadian veteran with deadly consequences for his family. Is Ottawa doing enough to support veterans with mental illnesses?

Catherine Hartling: And people need help. They should be getting it. And our government and our health system is failing those people.

Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. That was Catherine Hartling, the aunt of Lionel Desmond, the veteran who killed himself and his family in an apparent murder-suicide last week. His family claims he was failed by the mental health system. He joins a growing list of veterans who have not been able to get the mental health help they need, a problem that many reports have highlighted over the years. So what should the government be doing? Joining me now if Veteran’s Ombudsman Gary Walbourne. Mr. Walbourne thanks for being here, I appreciate it.

Gary Walbourne: Well thank you for having me. And first of all, let me clarify, I’m the Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman.

Vassy Kapelos: I’m sorry, I’m sorry Veterans—

Gary Walbourne: No problem.

Vassy Kapelos: Yes, no appreciate it.

Gary Walbourne: Mr. Guy Parent is the Veteran’s Ombudsman.

Vassy Kapelos: For sure, I’m sorry about that. We just heard from family members who are saying that the government is failing veterans and failing people in the military when it comes to accessing mental health help. Is the government failing veterans?

Gary Walbourne:  Well I think when there are tragedies of this magnitude, you know, the first thing we look for is blame. Who can we blame? But I don’t think it’s so much a matter of failing but I think it’s where we find ourselves because of the processes we’ve built. One of the things that we’ve recommended to the Government of Canada and the Department of National Defence is that no Canadian Armed Forces member be released until all benefits and services from all sources, whether that’s pension, Veteran’s Affairs Canada, whatever that looks like, whatever that suite of benefits and services is like. Have that all in place prior to releasing the member. I think if we could get there we could start having a different conversation. You know, I’ve been in and around the ombudsman role for about seven years. I was the Deputy Ombudsman at Veteran’s Affairs for almost four years and I’ve been in this position for three. And we’ve been talking about transition and help for our members that are transitioning for all that time and before. So, you know, it’s a little is it a failure? Are we just not aligning the resources where they need to be? Are we making the right decisions? I do believe that if we could get back to that one recommendation of holding the member until everything was in place, I think we could have a different conversation next year.

Vassy Kapelos: Like you said though, that recommendation has been made for many, many years. Why has it fallen on deaf ears?

Gary Walbourne: Well the recommendation was actually made in September of last year.

Vassy Kapelos: That recommendation from you, but we’ve heard it before many times.

Gary Walbourne: You’re right. I mean it has been a buildup of information and data collection and evidence finding over the last 10, 12 years. But we find ourselves having the same conversations. So I’m as beguiled and bewildered as you. Why is that there’s a tragedy before we start having the conversation? Why aren’t we doing something different? So I think it’s fundamentally the service delivery model we’re using for the transitioning member. I think it’s fundamentally flawed. And I think the major flaw is that we release people before they’re ready or before the systems are in place to help them.

Vassy Kapelos: And what’s the consequence of that? So, what position do military members find themselves in when they do make that transition if they don’t have all of that information—if they’re not armed with all that information?

Gary Walbourne: Well I mean—and the outcome can be varied across the spectrum. If someone gets released and they do not receive their financial benefits, well their impact to them and their family is going to be different for someone who’s released and has a medical care issue that they can’t get addressed. So, the potential problems are numerous across the board. Whether it’s financial benefits, health care benefits, continuing education, whatever that may look like. If there’s a break, you know, we’ve got to back and say the Canadian Armed Forces do a fairly good job with members when they present themselves and we give them medical care and take care of them for periods of time during transition. You can be six months—it can go up to three years. But I’m saying is there are others who are being released without having that full package of services and benefits in place and I think that’s a fundamental flaw of what we do. If we didn’t release them, we know the continuity of health care would carry on. We know that they need a financial platform to stand on would be in place. There would be no break in those two things and I think those two are critical.

Vassy Kapelos: How critical do you think that change is? How much is time important given the fact that we are seeing for example, veterans of the Afghanistan conflict leaving service and retiring from their service at escalating rates at this point. Do you think, you know, if something doesn’t change quickly, the problem could be worse essentially?

Gary Walbourne: Well, you know, I had to do it, but there was a quote I read one time by George Washington and I’m going to ad lib. But I don’t have it word for word. And he said the willingness of any young man—at the point in time, 1776 when he wrote it. Any young man to participate in a war no matter how justified will be dependent on how we treat our veterans. So you know, I’ve been saying for a little while now that if we don’t change the position and the approach we have, I think the conversation is going to change away from transitioning members to national security. We have to start thinking about how are we going to recruit and how are we going to put together a vocation that is going to see someone taken care of from the time they sign up until the time they have left the service. So I think we fundamentally have to change some of the processes we have inside of our service delivery model.

Vassy Kapelos: Do you think the political will is there?

Gary Walbourne: Well, you know—

Vassy Kapelos: Based on what you’ve seen so far from this government.

Gary Walbourne: Well, I do know that the department is going through what’s called a Defence Policy Review and I know that has taken a lot of time and effort out of the environment—out of the department. You know they’re talking about releasing that in the spring sometime, but why waiting so long? You know what I’m talking about holding the members is well within the purview of the authority of the Minister of the National Defence and the Chief of Defence staff. They can hold a member, it’s their prerogative. So I don’t know why we need to wait for an overarching strategic document or I think we know what needs to be done. I’d just like to see some action.

Vassy Kapelos: I think a lot of Canadians would after seeing what happened this week.

Gary Walbourne: Yes.

Vassy Kapelos: Thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate it.

Gary Walbourne: Appreciate it.

Vassy Kapelos: That is our show for today. We’re always eager to hear from you. You can find us online atwww.thewestblock.ca. You can also reach us on Twitter and Facebook. Thanks so much for joining us today. I’m Vassy Kapelos. See you next week.