A Saint John High student says he was left frustrated after what called a “combative” meeting with New Brunswick Education Minister Bill Hogan over the review of LGBTQ2 inclusion policy.
Logan Martin, a Grade 11 student, said it seemed that Hogan had no interest in listening to his concerns over the review of Policy 713.
“We just felt like we weren’t being listened to, like he didn’t really care to be with us, he only did it to say ‘I met with students,'” Martin said.
“We felt really angry at the end, like he didn’t want to hear a single word we said.”
Policy 713 sets out minimum standards to ensure an inclusive environment for LGBTQ2 students in the school system. Martin said he had experienced bullying over his perceived sexual identity before the policy was put in place in 2020.
“Even before I came out it was no secret to the school community that I was gay and people would make that known and say things to me in the hallway,” he said.
“Occasionally I’d tell a teacher and they would be able to tell them to stop or that they would give them detention but there wasn’t really anything that they had the power to do.”
That school experience has changed since the policy was implemented.
“My first year of high school I noticed that there was still that homophobia going on … and once the policy was enacted it was like a huge change,” Martin said. “Right now we come to school and nothing happens, we don’t have to worry about if you’re safe walking in the hallways or going to the bathroom.
“I don’t have to worry about coming to school anymore.”
Premier Blaine Higgs and Hogan have said that only three pieces of the policy are under review and maintain that no rights will be taken away. Policy areas dealing with participation in sports based on gender identity, bathroom policy and the ability of children under 16 to begin using preferred pronouns or names at school without parental consent are all being reviewed.
Martin was one of the students who helped organize a walkout at Saint John High in protest of the review on May 15. He said he got in contact with Hogan’s office seeking a meeting shortly after. That led to a half-hour meeting on Tuesday in Fredericton.
Martin said Hogan was 23 minutes late for the meeting. He described the minister as “combative” and said it seemed his mind was made up on what the end result of the review would be.
“It was more of like a debate than it was a conversation,” Martin said. “He wasn’t listening or actually comprehending what we were saying; before we would respond he would just yell right back.
“I wanted to get up in the middle of the meeting because I was just losing my patience and I was like, what is the point of even talking to him if he’s not going to listen?”
Global News requested comment from the minister, but a spokesperson for the education department said Hogan will not be speaking further until the review is finished.
Martin is not the only New Brunswicker speaking out after a negative experience during consultations on the policy. Nicole Paquet, a Saint John mom of a trans child, told Global News last week that she felt used after the minister asked her to draft wording that would water down a key part of the policy that she supports.
Paquet had presented to the government caucus last week, detailing the detrimental impact on her child after the policy wasn’t followed. The school outed her child after notifying Paquet that they were using a different name and pronoun. The next day in a 40-minute phone call with the minister, Paquet says Hogan asked her to suggest a change in wording that would allow parents to be informed if their child decides to go by a preferred name or pronouns.
She said the request was particularly confusing since she had spoken about the necessity of that protection during her presentation to caucus.
“It’s disturbing on so many levels,” she said in an interview.
“I believe they’ve already written what they want to write. I believe they wanted to use me as a parent who happens to be well-spoken and supportive of their child to say, ‘Look what we did, we’ve consulted and here’s our answer.’”
Speaking to reporters on Wednesday, Higgs didn’t contradict Paquet’s account of her meeting with the minister, but called her comments “disappointing.”
“It was a disappointing comment and more of a political one it seems,” he said.
Martin also detailed a number of concerning remarks made by Hogan during their meeting. He said Hogan repeatedly referred to being gay or trans as a “lifestyle.”
When speaking about sex education curriculum, Martin says the minister said that it’s the job of teachers to teach, not to “promote.”
“Personally I believe that using the word ‘lifestyle’ to refer to someone who’s gay or trans makes it seem like they chose that, that they weren’t born that way, which is really homophobic,” he said.
“To have that being said to me by the minister of education of New Brunswick was just a ‘wow’ moment.”
Over the last few weeks, some have raised concerns that the very fact that the policy is being reviewed could have a negative impact on the people it’s designed to protect, including the province’s child and youth advocate as well as the N.B. Women’s Council.
Shawn Rouse, the father of a trans child, says those concerns aren’t misplaced.
“From a very personal perspective, my own child has seen an uptick in very intolerant and severe bullying at school,” he said.
“Not only with them, but with their own LGBTQ2+ friends.”
Martin has similar concerns. He says Saint John High has always been a welcoming and inclusive school, but recently witnessed a group of students standing across the street loudly yelling that they hate gay people. The incident was quickly dealt with by the principal, but Martin worries that when Higgs and Hogan talk about being gay as a “lifestyle” or use “promotion” when talking about sex ed, people with homophobic views may be more likely to express them.
Last month when speaking with reporters about the review for the first time, Higgs said he wasn’t sure if people are born gay and said we need to determine if “we are trying to teach tolerance and acceptance or are we trying to teach promotion?”
Martin worries about the message those comments send.
“With the words of our premier and our education minister … I think it’s sending a message to kids who may have already been homophobic before the enactment of Policy 713 that it’s OK to say these things,” Martin said.
“Because when we have government officials, people we hold to a really high standard, using these words and saying these things on the news, then it must be OK.”
Hogan had promised the review would be finished soon and Higgs said Wednesday that results will be known within “days.” He didn’t answer when asked what role caucus will play in the decision, but said they trust Hogan to get it right.
“I’ve not seen the final outcome of that discussion and those consultations. He will present that to our team here over the coming days or weeks — probably not weeks — then we’ll kind of know where it lands,” he said.
“Right now it’s still very much in the minister’s hands to complete his evaluation.”
So far four cabinet ministers and two backbenchers have publicly expressed concerns about the review, with some saying that the protection of children should be the priority.