Show Transcript – August 21

Transcript for Saturday, August 21, 2010 – 1900

Also airs Sunday, August 22, 2010 – 0700, 1130 and 0000

Monday, August 23, 2010 – 0630

Mixed Martial Arts Comes to Ontario

GUEST –

Sophia Aggelonitis, Revenue Minister

Jim Coyle, Toronto Star Columnist

Maria Babbage, Canadian Press Corespondent

SEAN MALLEN: The Premier’s Office has an impressively large Communications Department, with several members who used to work in the media and now making better salaries in government. The rollout of every announcement is carefully calculated from the timing, to the location, to the cast of interest groups to be invited, not to mention the choice of media outlet to be granted a strategic leak in advance. So I wonder what they were all thinking when on a summer Saturday morning the legalization of mixed martial arts was announced in a Tweet.

(video clip)

It was once witheringly described as human cockfighting. Just about anything goes inside the octagon where muscular warriors pummel, throttle, and twist their opponents into either submission or unconsciousness. The critics have been unable to overcome a clever marketing plan. MMA (mixed martial arts) has grown explosively into a billion dollar phenomenon.

Robin Black, Professional MMA Fighter: If the UFC comes to Toronto there will be fifty to sixty thousand people that will go. It will sell out in an hour or less and it will bring many millions of dollars into the economy.

For months the Ontario government resisted an intense lobbying campaign to legalize it in this province, until the Premier finally tapped out.

Premier Dalton McGuinty: The minister had been monitoring this very closely and had heard from many Ontarians, and Ontarians are pretty straightforward with us. They said we want choice, and we will make sure that they have that choice. We will regulate mixed martial arts in the province of Ontario.

But the medical profession says regulation cannot avert the consequences:

Dr Charles Tator, brain surgeon: MMA causes injuries to the brain. There are lots of concussions in MMA.

On this week’s Focus – Ultimate Fighting comes to Ontario.

From the Global News Room in Toronto, Focus Ontario with Sean Mallen.

SEAN MALLEN: Thanks for joining me again. Later in the program I’ll be joined by two colleagues from the Queen’s Park Press Gallery to talk about what has been an unexpectedly eventful summer for the government of Ontario. But first, ultimate fighting. A week ago at this time Sophia Aggelonitis was in charge of the file as Consumer Services Minister, but on Wednesday the Premier shuffled her over to Revenue and Seniors issues, but she agreed to keep her date on our program anyway. So welcome back to Focus Ontario.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you, Sean. Good to be here.

SEAN MALLEN: I’ll get to the substance of the announcement in a moment, but why a Tweet. Why put out a Tweet on a Saturday morning on something that has such broad interest?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, you know there’s a lot of reasons. One is we needed to get the message out as quickly as possible. What we did do was make sure that there was a news release and that the proper channels knew about it. A Tweet really did get out to a lot of our fans and people thought a kind of a Tweet would work.

SEAN MALLEN: Okay, well we’re on Twitter now too. So we’ll see if anyone responds to that. There was big resistance in government for a long time, the constant line was not a priority but also an undertone of “˜we don’t really like this stuff’. What made you change?

Sophia Aggelonitis: You know it’s been on the government’s agenda for awhile. It’s been there, we’ve been monitoring it. This is a very, very popular sport and when I became Minister of Consumer Services back in January it was on my list of priorities. There were a lot of things that I was looking at in my ministry and MMA was one of them.

SEAN MALLEN: As you know, you saw Charles Tator, a brain surgeon, in the opening there. It’s clear whatever you think about mixed martial arts, there are lots of knock-outs, spectacular knock-outs, part of the appeal for those who like it, but lots of people get knocked out, and Dr Tator had more to say about that. I want to play a clip and get your response to it. Let’s have a look:

(video clip)

Dr Charles Tator: Nowadays we’re even more concerned about the link effects of concussion. For example, concussions when they’re repeated, can end up looking like Alzheimer’s disease. So when we authorize an activity like MMA, then you can expect that we are going to see more brain injuries.

SEAN MALLEN: So more brain injuries and it’s been out in B.C. and the medical profession there is really opposed to this. Does this cause you concern approving something like this?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well look, there is no doubt that a competitor who goes into the ring is an athlete. He is an elite athlete who has trained many, many years to get to a physical shape and a mental state to be able to go and compete. We in the province of Ontario right now, we regulate boxing, we regulate kick-boxing, and mixed martial arts, like other full contact sports – of course they are a dangerous sport, but it’s a decision that if we don’t regulate, we cannot attempt safety, and safety is our concern.

SEAN MALLEN: What do you think about it personally? You must have looked at some of it, you saw some in the opening there. What do you think of mixed martial arts?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well look, ever since I was a little girl I was a big wrestling fan. My dad and I and my cousins would watch wrestling. So I grew up with watching wrestling.

SEAN MALLEN: Professional wrestling we’re talking.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Yes.

SEAN MALLEN: Where it’s staged, this is the real thing.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well again, it’s a choice that Ontarians have to make. I have seen MMA events, I do watch boxing, I also watch hockey and football. I’m a big sports fan.

SEAN MALLEN: It doesn’t cause you unease when you watch it, when you’ve got a guy get knocked senseless or chocked unconscious?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, when you look at the technical aspects of MMA, there is something called tapping out, and unlike boxing where it’s a knockout, MMA – the competitors, as well as the referee, can tap out at any time during that fight.

SEAN MALLEN: So how closely will it be regulated?

Sophia Aggelonitis: It will be regulated very, very closely.

SEAN MALLEN: Give an example.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, in the province of Ontario we have The Athletics Control Act and that Act is basically the Athletics Commissioner of Ontario will enforce it and will administer that Act. This man has been our Athletics Commissioner now for well over twenty years. He is the one who is in charge of all the boxing regulations, as well as all the kickboxing events that happen in Ontario, and he will monitor MMA just as strictly as he does those two.

SEAN MALLEN: So a doctor has to be on site?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Absolutely.

SEAN MALLEN: Okay, I am going to stop you there, that’s our time for this segment, come back in a moment to talk more with Sophia Aggelonitis.

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SEAN MALLEN: Welcome back to my conversation with the former Consumer Affairs Minister, Sophia Aggelonitis, now the Revenue Minister. We’re talking about consumer issues. Now seeing as you’re just freshly out of the portfolio, just this past week you were talking about issues involving movers.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Yes.

SEAN MALLEN: We’ve had on this TV station many stories about unscrupulous movers over the years. Particularly the issue of they pick up your stuff, they take it to the location, and they say wait a minute, this is going to cost you an extra couple thousand dollars before we get it off the truck. How do people protect themselves against that?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, I’m glad we’re talking about this because this is a very serious problem. What we have seen in Ontario, there are some movers who are using very unethical practices, but people are protected. Residents of Ontario are protected through the Consumer Protection Act. The most important thing, the advice I would give all Ontarians is when they sign a contract with a mover make sure the mover comes and takes a look at everything that they have to be moved, and make sure that there are no hidden costs. There should be a written contract and if for some reason that written contract is changed throughout the move, you only pay up to ten per cent more of whatever is on the final bill.

SEAN MALLEN: Well, what do you do when you are at your new home, and buddy is saying yes, but I want two thousand dollars or I’m taking your furniture away.

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well very simply, first of all if you feel threatened in any way, you call the police right away. Absolutely, call the police. But if they have your stuff, and you need to get your stuff into your house, I would say if you can call the Ministry of Consumer Services right away, or on the cheque, the money that you give them, make sure you put “˜under distress’, and make sure that they know, also on their written contract that you’re doing this under distress, and make sure you contact the Ministry of Consumer Services.

SEAN MALLEN: Get your money back?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Oh yes, we’ll get your money back. But the other thing is, the more awareness we can have with shows like this, make sure that people are aware that this is not good business practices, and the good news it that there are many, many great movers out there.

SEAN MALLEN: You are the only member of the cabinet from Hamilton at the moment. There is a huge issue in Hamilton right now, having to do with the stadium, supposedly for the Pan-Am games, supposedly for the Tiger Cats, a huge dispute. The Tiger Cats want it in one location, city council has voted to have it in a downtown location. Tiger Cats have walked away from it, talking about moving from Hamilton. No Tiger Cats in Hamilton! There have been some mixed messages from you and the other member from the area there about which side you support. What’s your take on this; what should happen with this; what can you do to try to get it settled?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, I’ll tell you our position has been consistent. We are one hundred percent behind our city, and our city has voted 10 – 6, they have voted and they said they want the stadium in the west harbour. We will make sure that the money from the province and the federal government, the money is on the table for a Pan-Am stadium in Hamilton, and I will tell you if you know anything about Hamiltonians, at the end of the day we will work together and we will find a solution to make this a success. We want the Pan-Am stadium in Hamilton. This is a great opportunity for our community.

SEAN MALLEN: Okay, but that’s not where the Ticats’ owner wants it. He’s walked away from it all. How do you settle this without losing the Ticats or the stadium, or both?

Sophia Aggelonitis: Well, let me just say that I truly am a big Ticats fan and I think it would be very sad if we lost the Ticats. They have been around for 141 years. What I am hoping is that the sides can come together and we can come up with a solution. This is a great opportunity for Hamilton and I know that when Hamilton puts its mind to it, we succeed.

SEAN MALLEN: Okay, well we’ll see. We’ll be watching that one, the folks in Hamilton especially.

Sophia Aggelonitis, welcome to your new portfolio. Thanks for coming on Focus.

And back in a moment to talk about the hot political summer.

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SEAN MALLEN: Well, as I said earlier the Premier shuffled his cabinet this week, after what has been a stormy summer. Eight people were moved around, but no one bounced from the A team. John Gerretsen, who struggled with the eco fee file, has been moved from Environment to Consumer Services; Rick Bartolucci took heat for the handling of G20 policing issues. He’s now out of Community Safety and into Municipal Affairs. There are two new ministers, both no surprise, both recent by-election winners. Former Winnipeg mayor Glenn Murray gets Research and Innovation; and Bob Chiarelli, a former Ottawa mayor, takes over in Infrastructure. I asked the Premier whether he’s told his team to shape up after the recent troubles.

(video clip)

Premier Dalton McGuinty: After his ship had been tossed about on the open seas storm you take advantage of the first clearing to read the stars, get your bearings, and regain your course. You might say we’re doing that today.

SEAN MALLEN: An Ipsos Reid poll just released on Friday indicates that the good ship Liberal might actually have hit an iceberg. It shows the Conservatives under Tim Hudak climbing into the lead in support – 36 per cent, up four points since June. The Liberals dropped two points to 35 per cent; the NDP is also down two at 18 per cent; and Green support is unchanged at 11 per cent. And take a look at this, even more worrying for the Liberals, 64 per cent of those surveyed believe that it’s time for another provincial party to take over.

Among those watching and reporting on all this – Jim Coyle, columnist for the Toronto Star; and Maria Babbage, who covers Queen’s Park for the Canadian Press. Welcome to the S.S. Focus Ontario, try not to hit a reef today.

Jim Coyle: Hi Sean.

SEAN MALLEN: So Jim, what do you think of those poll numbers?

Jim Coyle: They’re fascinating. I think the most important thing is not necessarily the fact that the Tories have moved ahead of the Liberals, they’re kind of within the margin of error of two points, let’s put it that way, though it’s a bad trend obviously for Premier McGuinty. The numbers on leadership though in almost every category, put Tim Hudak ahead of the Premier, which must be shocking to them. And he’s ahead in some of the wildest categories.

“˜Someone who has a hidden agenda’, which is one of the things the Liberals like to lay on Hudak and the Tories, they’ve got Dalton McGuinty 56 per cent, Hudak only 24 per cent. “˜Open to ideas of others’, Hudak leads McGuinty; “˜knowing when to compromise for the better good’, Hudak leads McGuinty. You can understand why they have him ahead in managing the economy and managing taxpayer dollars, but he’s even ahead in best as head of the future of the provincial health care system.

All this tells me two things. It tells me a lot of people don’t know Tim Hudak yet, and the Liberals had better start trying to frame him, but they’re really, really ticked at the government.

SEAN MALLEN: What do you make of it, Maria? Do you think it’s indicative of a rough summer?

Maria Babbage: Yes, I think so. I mean we’ve had a bunch of scandals and fiascos. We’ve had eco fees that a lot of consumers were very angry about, and we’ve had a very bad Ombudsman’s report on health care, which I think may have affected those numbers as well. I think it’s very interesting that Tim Hudak is leading in terms of the leadership numbers because for a very long time the train has ridden on the Dalton McGuinty brand and if his numbers are dipping they’re in big trouble.

SEAN MALLEN: I’ll ask you this first Maria, is there a little bit of none of the above with this, because people don’t really know very much about Tim Hudak yet.

Maria Babbage: I think that’s true. He’s been here for fourteen years, but it’s puzzling that people don’t know who he is, but I think what they’re looking for is an alternative, and right now he looks like the most viable alternative.

SEAN MALLEN: What do you make of that Jim, because Mr Hudak has been pretty careful to not say anything about what he’s going to promise next year?

Jim Coyle: Yes, he’s pretty careful but I think all of this reflects on the Premier, a lot of it to do with his indecision or reversing course on a number of issues over the summer. A lot of time you can play that as being someone who considers opinions and changes his mind if he’s persuaded there’s a better way to go, but there’s a line between assuming like a sign of wisdom and compromise, and seeming like a ditherer who doesn’t have a clue, and I think a lot of these numbers show people are either angry at what McGuinty is doing, or I’m not sure what the heck he’s going to do next.

SEAN MALLEN: Certainly for me this cabinet shuffle came out of the blue a little bit this week. Do you think maybe they were seeing some numbers like this and thought maybe we need to do at least some kind of tweak. What do you think was behind the shuffle?

Jim Coyle: I think the only exercise was to get Glenn Murray and Bob Chiarelli into cabinet. I’m sure they were promised positions as the price of their running in those by-elections. He had to get them in; in both cases he separated one ministry from a minister who was doing double duty and he’s got them in, but he didn’t shuffle it anywhere near hard enough for my taste. I think he had a real opportunity to bring some fresh blood, some women, some younger people, and he turned to guys who are career lifers in politics, who have been around for twenty, twenty-five years. In Chiarelli’s case, you know he’s 69 next month. He’s a very definition of aging infrastructure; he’ll hit 70 by the time of the next election. And there are a lot of people who have been sitting on the back bench with tremendous credentials, with hopes and dreams of doing something, of a different generation. And they watch these guys leapfrog over them.

And the one to bear watching is Glenn Murray. A lot of Liberal backbenchers are even suspicious of him. They think he’s an ego on stilts, he talks way too much about things he might know very little about, and I think privately there may be a few Liberals hoping he falls on his face.

SEAN MALLEN: Do you think Maria, there was an element of not punishment, at least get John Gerretsen and Rick Bartolucci out of the portfolios where they hit on the rocks a little?

Maria Babbage: I think there was definitely kind of a spin on it. I mean normally a minister who got into trouble like that would be dropped from cabinet. In this case McGuinty’s just shifted them over. Gerretsen did get a demotion. I mean Consumer Services is not as high profile as the Environment, but I mean this was a man who really angered a bunch of consumers and ended up being put in the Consumer Services portfolio. I mean the wisdom of that is a bit questionable.

SEAN MALLEN: Do you have a sense – I mean I was reporting the other night – there’s a common perceived wisdom there’s going to be another and larger shuffle perhaps on the Christmas break, to get some older people out, fresh people in.

Maria Babbage: I think that may have to be done. I mean during the press conference immediately following the shuffle, Dalton McGuinty was dodging questions about whether he had his team in place for the next election. So I think that he’s sending a message that if you don’t do a good job in your job, I’m going to switch you out and you’re going to either be dropped from cabinet or find yourself doing something completely irrelevant.

SEAN MALLEN: Get your take from both of you on Mr Hudak. He’s been trying to get attention all summer. They have a news conference just about every day there, if not him one of his caucus members. It doesn’t always get on TV or in the newspaper, but how do you think his performance has been on this so far. He’s been pretty careful I think.

Jim Coyle: He’s careful. I think he’s getting better every day. He can be personable, he’s often more personable in person than on TV because he’s so much on message. There is a benefit to consistency and he delivers his message over and over and over again. And he’s very conscious not to be provoked into declaring things he might do in future. But there’s also something kind of rehearsed and robotic and stilted about him. He comes off seeming very young, sort of like a university frat house boy in comparison to the Premier. But who knows, maybe that plays to his advantage as well. I think his confidence is growing. There are Liberals who thought Hudak was their greatest asset, that had the Tories had a more impressive leader, that the Liberals would be in considerable difficulty, but if these numbers are anywhere close, I don’t think they can count on that any more.

SEAN MALLEN: Something’s going on. Just a minute left. Maria, what’s your take on Mr Hudak’s performance so far? Do you think he can expect to get a lot more heat from the Liberals? It’s kind of a rhetorical question I guess.

Maria Babbage: Yes, I think that so far his performance has been pretty good. I mean his job right now is just to hammer in one message, that he’s going to help taxpayers. He’s going to make sure they’re not paying so much, and you know right now we’ve got a government who’s introduced the HST, introduced more eco fees, electricity prices are going up. This is a message that I think people like, so if that’s his job to hammer on one message, that’s it. I think that’s going to be very – you know I think that’s what helped him in the polls.

SEAN MALLEN: Just twenty seconds left, Jim. Rough ride for him over the next twelve months from the Liberals?

Jim Coyle: Oh, I think they’re going to have to start trying to frame him as the second coming of Mike Harris and possibly worse, and start running campaigns of fear about what a Tory government under him might look like. I think they have taken him a bit too for granted so far and that it’s going to be different from here to election day.

SEAN MALLEN: Okay, well this poll may wake them up a little bit. Thanks for coming on the program – Jim Coyle, Maria Babbage.

Jim Coyle: Thanks very much, Sean.

SEAN MALLEN: And one segment to go on Focus, with your comments and the Play of the Week – Meeting Curfew.

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Play of the Week

(video clips)

If you want to run for high office you’re bound to face questions about youthful misadventures with the law. Ask Rob Ford, candidate for mayor of Toronto, who admitted to a run-in with Florida police, an incident involving a marijuana joint in a back pocket and allegedly booze on his breath while driving.

PC leader Tim Hudak would like to be your next premier. So on the same day as Ford came clean, the intrepid Queen’s Park press gallery put a pointed question to Hudak. Have you ever been charged with a criminal offence?

Tim Hudak: No. I know looking at me you think that Hudak has probably a long record there. I know my public image, but the answer Randy is no.

Well listen, my Dad was a principal, my Mom was a special needs teacher in high school, so I tried to make sure I hit my curfew, so no, there are no charges.

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And now your comments. First on the subject of the new zero tolerance for alcohol for young and new drivers. Listen to this voice-mail “I believe the young fellow that was on your program about the drinking and driving does have an age discrimination. If they are going to do it, they should discriminate right across the board and just make it zero tolerance, which is where the government is going anyway. So just do it and get it done.” Scott Gargaro

And I’m still hearing about the now-defunct eco fee program and who should be picking up the cost of recycling hazardous household waste. Here’s one viewer’s opinion: “I’m not a big proponent of the corporate agenda, but I think that if I decide to buy a product and use it that the manufacturer has produced, I bear a certain responsibility in its production at that point, or its reason for being. I think therefore that some of the cost it’s only fair, should be put onto me, some of it.”

Claude Valiquette

So what do you think about mixed martial arts, or the current state of the Liberal Party. Here’s how you can register a comment. You can write me a letter to:

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And that’s our program for this week. I’m Sean Mallen, thanks for watching. We’ll see you next weekend.

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