THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 10, Season 7
Sunday, November 12, 2017
Host: Vassy Kapelos
Guest Interviews: Minister Catherine McKenna,
UCP Leader Jason Kenney, Minister Carla Qualtrough
Location: Ottawa
On this Sunday, as diplomats from around the world gather in Germany to press forward on the Paris climate deal. Here at home, the government is taking heat for falling behind on its promise to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Is there a plan for Canada to meet its climate promise?
Then, Bill 22: A proposal in Alberta would make it illegal for teachers to tell parents if their child joins a gay-straight alliance club (GSA). United Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney opposes the bill. We’ll ask him why.
Plus, as revelations continue from the Paradise Papers on whom and what companies have offshore tax havens, we’ll ask Minister Carla Qualtrough what her government is doing to close those tax loopholes.
It’s Sunday, November 12th. I’m Vassy Kapelos, and this is The West Block.
It’s been nearly two years since the government signed on to the Paris Climate agreement and critics charge Canada is already falling behind on its commitment to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Diplomats around the world are gathering in Germany to set rules and guidelines for countries to meet their climate targets. What will Canada bring to the table? Joining me now is Environment Minister Catherine McKenna.
Thanks so much for being with us on the program, Minister. I appreciate it, nice to see you.
Minister Catherine McKenna: It’s great to be here.
Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to start off by asking about a report released late last month from the UN and it sort of did two things. First of all, that Canada isn’t on track to meeting its 2030 emissions targets. And secondly, even if we were, it wouldn’t be enough to meet the goal established with the Paris Climate agreement. Do you agree with that assessment?
Minister Catherine McKenna: So for the first one, no. We have a climate plan we negotiated with the provinces and territories, and it’s a cross the board plan, so it’s everything from putting a price on carbon pollution, phasing out coal, net-zero building standards, historic investments in public transit. In Ottawa, just the investment in public transit, the second phase of LRT is the largest reduction in Ottawa’s history, and in investments to support clean tech entrepreneurs, but it takes time for these policies to have effect and our target is a 2030 target. So we just negotiated the plan last year. We’re working across the board. We’re working with provinces and we’re going to meet our target. In terms of, you know, all of the whole world being able to keep temperatures well below 2 degrees, we have more work to do and that’s the benefit of the Paris agreement. It has an ability, you know, every five years you have to come back, you have to ratchet up the ambition. So everyone needs to be doing more. We know that. I’m going to be in Bonn next week for the international climate talks, and one of the things we’re doing is working with countries, including the U.K. to get a phase out of coal. We know that coal is one of the most polluting substances, that it’s a huge source of greenhouse gas emissions. And so if we can bring the world together, we know renewables, the solar and winds a lot cheaper now, that if we can work with countries around the world and phase out coal that would be a huge improvement in terms of our ambition.
Vassy Kapelos: Let me pick up on the second part of your answer about meeting the Paris target or achieving the Paris goal. When you talk about sort of ratcheting up, heading towards that goal, I guess your first opportunity to do that would probably be in 2020. So just to be clear, would you consider additional measures at that point?
Minister Catherine McKenna: So we’re always looking at additional measures. But to be clear, we need to be working with provinces and territories. It’s not like the federal government can just come in and say we’re going to do this without working with provinces and territories. So we’re going to continue doing that. As I said, we have a cross the board plan. You know that we know that we have to reduce emissions from industry, from the way we build houses and building, for transportation sector, so we’re always working on what policies can we do? What investments can we make? We know that investing in innovation so that Canadian businesses are part of the solution. We have amazing entrepreneurs that are providing solutions that we’re exporting. We need to do it across the board. We need to be thoughtful and I’ve always said the environment and the economy go together, so whatever policies we bring in, we not only have to do it with the provinces, we need to do it in a way that we’re making sure that we’re moving forward in a transition but in an orderly way. And so that’s always my goal, working very hard with environmentalists but also with industry.
Vassy Kapelos: Do you anticipate though, in 2020, you will have to be more aggressive in the targets that you set?
Minister Catherine McKenna: I mean everyone is looking. Every country around the world is looking at what more they can do. As I say—
Vassy Kapelos: But that doesn’t really answer it. You think does Canada have to be?
Minister Catherine McKenna: I think everyone needs to be ratcheting up the ambition. So that’s part of the Paris agreement process and we’re absolutely committed to that. I am more committed to supporting other countries, so developing countries that really cause the problem and need support. We need to be working with them as well. So it’s a cross the board solution. It’s every country doing their part and everyone working together. We’re totally committed and you’re going to see different pieces as we come out with our net-zero vehicle strategy. There’s all these different parts of how you can move forward and we have to do it in a thoughtful manner though. As I’ve always said, working with provinces, territories is really key.
Vassy Kapelos: How much does it weigh on you, you know, the potential impact of the targets that you set or the policies that you pursue, especially in a sector, for example, like the oil patch? Obviously, there will be a lot of consequences there. How much a part of the calculation is that for you?
Minister Catherine McKenna: I’ve always said I’m the Environment Minister as much for energy workers as I am for environmentalists. We work extremely closely with industry, including energy companies in Alberta. And so we all need to be working together. This is a transition. So our target is a 2030 target, right? This isn’t all going to happen overnight and we need to be doing everything in a thoughtful way. And you need to do key pieces. So putting a price on pollution, we’ve been very firm on that. You need to say that polluting isn’t free. We’re seeing the very real impacts of climate change across the country. We’ve seen flooding. We’ve seen forest fires. We’re seeing melting permafrost; Prince Edward Island is receding by 43cm a year, so we all know we need to be acting and we need to be acting together. And that’s always my goal. I work extremely hard to bring different groups together. I think we’re much better together working with Indigenous Peoples, working with industry, working with environmentalists, with provinces, with cities, and I think that’s a model for the world. Quite frankly, we’re not seeing the divisions on climate change. Canadians have been very clear that they want to see action and climate change, that they know it’s real, that they know it’s manmade. And so we’re all moving along, and I think that that’s a great message. And that’s a message I’m going to be bringing to the climate talks. I’m going to show Canada’s leadership domestically and also helping to support the rest of the world, countries that really want to move forward that need support.
Vassy Kapelos: And finally though, when you say that we are on track to achieve and that Canada is on track to achieving its 2030 targets, are you saying that the U.N. report is wrong? Because I know that your department released a report in April of this year asserting the same thing.
Minister Catherine McKenna: No, we have a target. I mean we have the path to the target. So what is strange about this report is our target is 2030, so emissions—we were just bringing in pieces of policies—
Vassy Kapelos: Is it just too early to assess it?
Minister Catherine McKenna: Well if you think about the second phase of LRT, we’re just starting to build it, right? If you talk about putting a price on pollution it’s coming in, in 2018. I mean obviously there are some things that are immediately, you know, that you’ll see immediate benefits.
Vassy Kapelos: Thanks for your time, Minister.
Minister Catherine McKenna: Great.
Vassy Kapelos: Nice to see you.
Minister Catherine McKenna: Thank you.
Vassy Kapelos: Thank you.
Up next, should there be a law forbidding teachers from telling parents if their child joins a gay-straight alliance club? We’ll look at the debate unfolding in Alberta.
Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. Bill 24 in Alberta is causing a showdown between the NDP and their Conservative rivals. The bill would prohibit teachers from telling parents if their son or daughter joins a gay-straight alliance club. New Democrats say the bill is necessary to provide protection for children and give them a safe club. But the UCP says parents need to know.
And joining us now from Calgary is newly minted UCP Leader Jason Kenney. Mr. Kenney thanks for being on the program and congratulations on your win.
Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney: Thank you very much.
Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to start off, sir, by asking you about Bill 24. Why don’t you support it?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Well because I support the current law in Alberta that the NDP and every party’s voted for, the status quo in every Canadian province, which basically means that we support gay-straight alliances and peer support for kids who are going through bullying or facing prejudice. But we think that every child is unique, every circumstance is different, particularly given that this is a legislation that applies to children as young as the age of five in kindergarten, and some of these kids have special needs or face trauma or emotional difficulties and we think that educators are in a better position to exercise their professional discretion and judgement to know when it’s in the best interest of a child to engage parents rather than politicians making that decision for them.
Vassy Kapelos: My understanding though is under Bill 24, teachers would still have the ability if they felt like someone’s safety was in jeopardy or they were suicidal, for example, to reach out to parents. Is that incorrect?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: No, that’s not at all clear. And the reality is we’re just supporting the status quo that the NDP supported until last week, which is to trust the professional judgement of educators to know when it’s in the best interest of the child to engage parents in difficult circumstances, and that’s the same policy in Ontario and right across the country.
Vassy Kapelos: But teachers, for example, represented by the Alberta Teachers Association, the Calgary School Board, the Calgary Catholic School Board all say that they’re supportive of the bill, that it wouldn’t hinder their ability if they felt like there was a safety concern to talk to parents. So I just want to be clear on exactly why you think the bill is so problematic?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Well I know a lot of teachers who don’t agree with that view, and again, I think that leaving some discretion to educators is smarter than using the blunt instrument of law, which is precisely why the NDP didn’t propose these changes before. No other province has done so. It’s just common sense to allow for professional discretion in these unique circumstances, like for example, the 12-year-old autistic girl I know who was put into counseling for her gender identity without knowledge of her parents and ended up committing—or trying to commit self-harm. The school later admitted that they should have engaged the parents. So I think we need to know that sometimes it is in the best interest of the child for parents to provide loving support to their children. And educators are in a better position to assess those circumstances than politicians.
Vassy Kapelos: But didn’t that case, that example that you brought up, didn’t that happen without Bill 24 anyway?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Yes, precisely. The point is that they thought they were following the guidelines of the NDP minister not to inform or engage parents. And I just think that it’s better to engage parents. Also, this bill would remove the requirement of parental notification for teaching sensitive matters around human sexuality, which I think GSA’s are supposed to be a peer support club, not a kind of an alternative classroom. So we want to ensure that parents do have that knowledge so they can help their kids in learning difficult issues about ethics and so forth.
Vassy Kapelos: But do you have any evidence, I guess, that GSA’s are actually teaching that type of curriculum or anything other than a support group?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Yeah, well the Alberta Teachers Association says that GSA’s can include the educational activities—school-wide educational activities, political activities, curriculum and so forth. So we’re simply saying if it gets into those areas—
Vassy Kapelos: I thought it was just avocation for changes to the curriculum, not necessarily a different curriculum being taught.
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Well curriculum, I mean curriculum material and right now the law has always required that parents be notified if something’s being taught to kids in a school. And we’re simply suggesting there’s no reason to change that.
Vassy Kapelos: What if a teacher doesn’t really understand what’s going on in the home? And I guess, you know, I think of certain examples of kids who are having a lot of trouble coming out to their families because maybe their family is of a certain religion and doesn’t believe homosexuality is right. Do you know what I mean? What would you say to them?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: I would say that then they shouldn’t inform the parents and that’s, I think, the normal status quo. Teachers understand they have a professional duty to maintain confidentiality for their students unless there’s an extraordinary circumstance in which it’s in the best interest of the child to engage parents, particularly for younger children. There’s a whole jurisprudential doctrine around mature minors which recognizes that as children become younger they’re less capable of exercising independent judgement. And this does apply to children as young as the age of five in kindergarten, so we do think there should be some sensitivity around, particularly kids who are much younger.
Vassy Kapelos: So why not instead of just opposing the bill, introduce an amendment that focuses on just what you said?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: We have.
Vassy Kapelos: And what does that amendment say, specifically?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Well one of the amendments that we brought forward was to continue the current legislation that requires parental consent on teaching kids material dealing with human sexuality. We’ve also asked the government to exclude elementary schools but they’ve chosen not to.
Vassy Kapelos: So what happens from here? Will this be—I know last week when you described your opposition to the bill, you said it was a unanimous opposition. Will this be a free vote? What happens going forward?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: No, I don’t think I said unanimous, but I think our caucus strongly believes in the position we’ve articulated, which is the status quo, the same position that the NDP supported until a week ago, the same position in every other province, the same position that was adopted unanimously by all Alberta parties just three years ago in our legislature. But these matters are subject to a free vote in our caucus and I’m certainly respective if MLA’s have a conscientious view, they want to vote differently. I would respect that, but I think there’s a strong consensus in our caucus that the current law is serving Alberta children well.
Vassy Kapelos: I guess before we go, I just wanted to ask, you know, if there are Albertans and kids watching that are worried—regardless of the politics, I know that both sides there are politics playing into this—but watching and feeling like, you know, they’re going to be outed, that your party would prefer that they be outed to their parents or that they won’t have sort of any right to privacy around their sexual orientation. What do you say to them?
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: What we say is what I’ve said from the very beginning with absolute clarity that we oppose that, and that’s a ridiculous thing to suggest. That teachers and educators have a duty of confidentiality if a child informs them of personal information, just school counselors do, but that there can be unique circumstances, particularly with younger children where they really do need the love and support of their families if they’re going through a time of difficulty and that we should leave it to the discretion of educators to exercise their professional judgement in such cases. But we support GSA’s and the peer support they can give kids, particularly those who are going through difficult circumstances.
Vassy Kapelos: Okay. Thanks very much for your time, Mr. Kenney.
UCP Leader Jason Kenney: Thank you.
Vassy Kapelos: Up next, what are the feds doing to track down tax evaders? And do they need to do more? That’s coming up.
Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. The government took more heat in the House of Commons last week as leaks from the confidential offshore financial records for companies and individuals with alleged tax havens revealed millions lost from unclaimed taxes. Liberal fundraiser, Stephen Bronfman, is accused of being among the culprits. So what is the government doing about it? Joining me now from Vancouver is Carla Qualtrough Minister of Public Services and Procurement. Minister, thanks for joining us, I appreciate it.
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Thank you for having me.
Vassy Kapelos: Minister, when the prime minister accepted Liberal fundraiser Stephen Bronfman’s explanation with respect to sheltering his money offshore, was Justin Trudeau putting himself in the middle of the investigation and sort of predetermining what the outcome of it would be?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: I personally wouldn’t say so, no. I mean I’m not in a position to talk about individual circumstances and people have come out with their own statements with regard to their involvement in tax havens. But I can assure you I have every confidence in the CRA that they are conducting independent investigations both proactively and reactively with regards to the Paradise Papers.
Vassy Kapelos: I guess though, for Canadians listening, if the prime minister says, you know, whatever Stephen Bronfman said, I accept. Is the CRA really going to find something else out?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Oh, absolutely 100 per cent. I mean the CRA has a number of different tools and tactics at its disposal and we’ve invested quite significantly in beefing up the CRA in the past couple of years. And, you know, I can assure you there’s no double standard. Nobody is above the law, you know, wherever these investigations lead, they will follow.
Vassy Kapelos: Why wouldn’t the prime minister have said that?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: You know, again, I can’t comment on what the prime minister said or why he said it, but I can tell you, I mean personally for myself, I have no reason to believe that what is on the face value people are saying isn’t true. But that’s not my job. I mean it’s the job of the CRA independently to pursue this and follow anything wherever it leads them. And I have every confidence that they will.
Vassy Kapelos: That investigation that they’re pursuing, is there a timeline for that, Minister?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: I don’t think there is a timeline. I mean there are a number of individuals. I know that they’re pursuing it kind of vigorously, just like they’re pursuing other more proactive initiatives. I can tell you that just in the past year alone, we’ve sent over 600 cases to criminal investigation. We’ve issued hundreds of search warrants. There have been over 100 criminal prosecutions. We take international tax evasion and avoidance really seriously.
Vassy Kapelos: I guess what form will their investigation take at the end of the day when they do conclude it? Whenever that is, will the findings be made public?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: You know I honestly don’t know the exact details of their process or their procedures. All I know is what they are committed to doing as independently following up on any specific lead and then taking action accordingly. If that leads to a fine or a criminal investigation, I think it’s a little premature to tell.
Vassy Kapelos: So we won’t really know then, for example, if Mr. Bronfman did anything wrong unless they decide to fine him?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Unless they fine him or unless it leads to a criminal prosecution, which would of course then be public. If charges are laid, any criminal charges are public.
Vassy Kapelos: So any fine levied would also be made public.
Minister Carla Qualtrough: That’s what I assume, but I don’t actually know the answer to that one 100 per cent.
Vassy Kapelos: I’m wondering when it comes to the larger problem, I guess, of people using offshore tax havens to avoid paying Canadian taxes. I know your government has invested a billion dollars and recouped quite a bit of money doing so. But still since then, there have been now the Paradise Papers. So, is more needed?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Oh yeah, absolutely. And we can always do more, and I think you will see us, you know, again, beefing up and increasing serious capacity. What they did last year, for example, was they targeted four specific jurisdictions, including the Isle of Man and they looked at every single electronic transfer, every, you know, kind of high risk transfer that may have happened to determine what’s going on. And that’s has yielded results. I mean if you look at 2014 under the Conservatives, there were 98 closed audits internationally. Last year for us, there were 220-something. So we’ve definitely beefed up our interest and focus on international tax evasion.
Vassy Kapelos: Do you think, though, that either more money or more tools perhaps in a legislative capacity could be necessary? Are you open to that possibility?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Well again, the minister of revenue and finance are probably the better persons to ask about the policy side and the legislative piece, but I absolutely think we can always do more and if there are more tools at our disposal we can do the jobs better.
Vassy Kapelos: You know, we of course asked for them to appear on the program but instead the government provided you as an interview for this subject, so that’s why I’m asking.
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Absolutely.
Vassy Kapelos: I guess we are wondering, are there specific things that the government is pursuing or is it sort of status quo, you know, we’re trying hard, we have invested a billion dollars, that’s where we’re leaving it, or will you do more?
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Well what I can say is we are doing more just by virtue of hiring more auditors. We’re going after people who go and advise people on non-compliance we’re going, so $44 million in fines for people who help people avoid taxes last year. We’re definitely doing more, 100 per cent.
Vassy Kapelos: Okay, we’ll leave it there, Minister. Thank you for your time.
Minister Carla Qualtrough: Thank you very much.
Vassy Kapelos: And that is our show for today. You may notice the ticker running at the bottom of the screen. That’s because we’re giving a shout-out to our Corus news talk radio stations. They are now airing The West Block every week. To find out more and where you can hear us on the radio, go to our website: www.thewestblock.ca. I’m Vassy Kapelos. Thanks for joining us.
And as we leave you this Remembrance Day weekend, we pay tribute to the Canadian men and women who serve in the military and to Silver Cross Mother Diana Abel. Here’s her story.
Diana Able: My son was Michael David Abel. He was 27-years-old and he was on Operation Deliverance in Somalia when he was killed. He was a goofball. He loved cars. He loved motorcycles. He was a great one for helping people. He loved kids. He was involved with kids in Somalia.
It was an accident. It was an accidental shooting. We were away. We were up island at the time visiting my mother. So we came home and there was a note on our door and multi messages to get in touch with someone. We made the phone call and this voice on the other end says, “There’s been an accident.” And of course the first question was, “Well, is he okay?” “No, he’s dead. You have one hour to tell your family and then it is being released to the press. Thank you. Good-bye.”
It means a lot to me. People say is this going to be a form of closure? It’s not closure that I’m looking for. It’s the actual representation of all the Silver Cross Mothers that I’m looking for. And also to honour the members of my son’s regiment.
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