THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 6, Season 7
Sunday, October 15, 2017
Host: Vassy Kapelos
Guest Interviews: Congressman Richard Neal, PC Leader Patrick Brown
Food for Thought: Minister Kent Hehr
Location: Ottawa
On this Sunday, as round four of the NAFTA negotiations continue in Washington, President Trump’s tough talk on trade has the government here mounting a full offensive to save the deal.
Then, as the Ontario Progressive Conservatives prepare for their policy convention next month, party leader Patrick Brown tells members socially conservative issues are off the table. We’ll ask him why.
Plus, we begin a new occasional series we’re calling “Food for Thought” and this week, Sports and Disabilities Minister Kent Hehr sits down with us at his favourite hangout away from Parliament Hill.
It’s Sunday, October 15th. I’m Vassy Kapelos, and this is The West Block.
The prime minister spent most of last week in Washington and Mexico, urging lawmakers there to support NAFTA. Round four of negotiations is underway right now just outside of Washington. In a moment we’ll talk to an influential congressman, Democrat Richard Neal who met with Trudeau during his Washington visit. Congressman Neal sits on the House Ways and Means Committee which may decide the future of this deal.
But first, take a listen to what President Trump had to say about NAFTA during his Oval Office meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, last Wednesday.
President Trump: “We’re negotiating the NAFTA deal. It’s time after all of these years. And we’ll see what happens. It’s possible we won’t be able to make a deal, and it’s possible that we will. We have a great personal relationship, and we have a relationship now as two countries, I think that’s as close as ever. But we’ll see if we can do the kind of changes that we need. We have to protect our workers, and in all fairness, the prime minister wants to protect Canada and his people, also. So we’ll see what happens with NAFTA. But I’ve been opposed to NAFTA for a long time in terms of the fairness of NAFTA. I said we’ll renegotiate. And I mean, I think Justin understands this. If we can’t make a deal, it will be terminated.”
Vassy Kapelos: Congressman, thank you so much for joining us this morning. I want to start with something I hope you can explain to viewers on our side of the border. How crucial is the committee that you sit on ultimately in deciding whether a new NAFTA would get approved?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well all revenue issues in the United States have to originate in the House of Representatives. And within the House of Representatives they have to first be heard and passed through the Ways and Means Committee which has broad responsibility for trade, and tariffs and tax. So in that instance here, the 40 members of the Ways and Means Committee conceivably could help to determine the outcome of NAFTA renewal.
Vassy Kapelos: And obviously, our Canadian prime minister recognizes that. Last week he met with your committee. I know originally you voted against NAFTA. Was there anything he said to persuade you to support NAFTA?
Congressman Richard Neal: I think that what the prime minister said was absolutely accurate that if we were just to disassociate ourselves at this time, after 23 years of NAFTA and arbitrarily abandon it, it has the potential to create economic chaos across Mexico, the United States and Canada. Better to adhere to the position: How do we make sure that the benefits of NAFTA are extended in a more even handed manner to all members of the American family, understanding that by nature, that trade agreements do create, those who tend to do very well, and others who tend not to do quite so well. So I think a better distribution of the benefits is what we should be focused on.
Vassy Kapelos: Do you think that is possible at all and do you think it’s possible within the timeframe that’s been set out?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well I think one of the issues that was very apparent is I think most Americans would think that having a bilateral relationship between Canada and the United States would not be controversial at all. But simultaneously, taking into consideration hemispheric responsibilities, the agreement does call for a relationship between the United States, Canada and Mexico. The Canadians and the Mexicans, they seem to be, I think, more effective in pushing back against some opponents who would suggest that NAFTA has not had any benefits at all. When the truth is, I think, that there are benefits that have largely, in America, been more concentrated than we would like. But again, he tried to assuage some of, I think, the concerns that we might have. And that after all, as we proceed to the fourth round of negotiations of NAFTA is what our focus should be.
Vassy Kapelos: Did he assuage any of those concerns?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well I think there are a lot of concerns that we should have right now. The decision of the United Kingdom to leave European Union is going to have untold economic consequences. You can see it right now in projected growth rates for the United Kingdom which I think are about 1.9 per cent when much the rest of industrial Europe is now projected to grow by 3 per cent. So there’s going to be a lot of hemorrhaging, I think, in the United Kingdom as they attempt to separate themselves from a marriage that for the most part has worked for the rest of Europe.
Vassy Kapelos: And just bringing it back to NAFTA, specifically, when you say you have a myriad of concerns. If you had to identify the most important one, what’s necessary for you to support a renegotiated trade deal?
Congressman Richard Neal: I think the big issue for those of us in the United States is manufacturing. I think one can make the argument that agriculture has done fine through NAFTA, but I do think that manufacturing in the United States has taken a bit of a hit. And I think trying to figure out through our tax code or through international relationship here or through a renegotiated NAFTA, and by the way, there’s nothing wrong after 23 years of taking a look at NAFTA, how to resurrect parts of the American manufacturing of our economy, particularly as it relates to steel and automobile production.
Vassy Kapelos: And Congressman, when you hear President Trump’s rhetoric about the possibility of walking away from NAFTA, what do you take away from that?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well in the end, Congress and the Ways and Means Committee, they’re going to have considerable sway over this issue. So I think that what the president’s position might turn out to be, if he even suggests that the United States should leave NAFTA, to undo that relationship you would have to go back to Congress and that would be a much more difficult task for him.
Vassy Kapelos: How difficult do you think it would be with Congress?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well I don’t want to offer conjecture at this point because I don’t know. And I think that it’s fair to say that some of the historical alignments, as they relate to trade, have really been turned in an unexpected direction. So I think that the better argument here is how do we refine some of our thinking and address some of the shortcomings that all acknowledge that NAFTA has created for segments of the American public.
Vassy Kapelos: Do you think his rhetoric is helpful during these negotiations?
Congressman Richard Neal: I think much of his rhetoric is charged on a day-to-day basis and frequently, he reverses rhetoric that he has already offered, so I think we’re going to have to take the longer view here.
Vassy Kapelos: And when you referenced auto production as a concern, what specifically do you mean?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well I think that there’s considerable evidence that American automobile manufacturers have moved production to Mexico for the purpose of offering lower wages and fewer benefits. And I think that that’s well known to all and I think it’s not disputed in any economic forecasts, so I think that that’s an area where considerable work has to be done to make America’s automobile sector more competitive right here in the United States.
Vassy Kapelos: Finally, when you’re looking back 23 years ago when you voted against NAFTA, do you think now you would vote the same way?
Congressman Richard Neal: Well I don’t know what the comparison would be other than the fact that 23 years ago I did predict that it was going to have dire consequences for parts of America’s manufacturing sector and that turned out to be the case. The argument now is what do we do about the marriage that we’ve been in, and do we want to create economic chaos across the hemisphere when many of these issues perhaps could be addressed and fixed. And I must say that Prime Minister Trudeau offered great optimism from a Canadian perspective.
Vassy Kapelos: Thanks so much, Congressman for joining us this morning.
Congressman Richard Neal: Delighted to be with you. Thank you.
Vassy Kapelos: Still to come, Food for Thought with cabinet Minister Kent Hehr. Find out what motivated him to become a politician after a drive by shooting left him paralyzed.
But first, why is Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown taking socially Conservative policies off the table? We’ll as him after the break.
Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown has taken social Conservative issues off the table when the party meets next month. This means there will be no reopening of the abortion debate and no sex education policy resolutions. So why has the leader shutdown discussion on these issues?
Joining now from Toronto is PC Leader Patrick Brown. Mr. Brown, great to have you back on the program.
PC Leader Patrick Brown: Great to be on the show.
Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to ask you first, can you be specific about what policies are off the table at your convention next month?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: Well we’re not going to be revisiting any of the divisive social issues. I want our focus to be economic. I want our focus to be about how we can get Ontario back on track and that’s why I said any motions that would diminish a woman’s right to choose or diminish the rights of same sex couples would not be something that I would allow to be debated because frankly, it’s not my belief that those are areas that we should be talking about. I’m proud to support a woman’s right to choose and marriage equality.
Vassy Kapelos: You didn’t always though. In the past, as an MP, you voted in favour of reopening the abortion debate. You also at one point during your leadership campaign sided on the side of parents who were angry about the sex education policy. So critics are saying this is just a political decision. Is it?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: No, I feel it’s the right thing to do, Vassy. And frankly, you know, debates we had in Canada a decade ago, I think rather than point fingers at those debates we should celebrate the fact that right now in Ontario and in Canada all parties support marriage equality. Frankly, you know, if you go back 10 years ago, Barack Obama, Dalton McGuinty, at one point even Jean Chrétien didn’t support marriage equality, so I think it’s a wonderful thing the views have evolved and I certainly will be proud as if I had the honour to be premier to always defend a woman’s right to choose and always support the rights of same sex couples.
Vassy Kapelos: So are you saying that your views essentially evolved?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: I think my views like most Canadians views have evolved, and I think it’s a good thing. You know, three years ago, I was at the Pride flag raising at Queen’s Park and I said how beautiful is it that everyone is here now? And maybe it took too long for some to be there, but we can celebrate the fact that in Ontario, that everyone is there. And frankly, that’s not the case in some countries. That’s not the case in some provinces and I can tell you as I’ve marched in the last three Toronto Pride parades and the Ottawa Pride parade, I’ve loved it. It’s a great experience. Frankly, love is love is love and government has no business on who you love.
Vassy Kapelos: Are you concerned at all though about isolating, I guess, the faction of your party that is socially Conservative by saying guys, you can’t talk about this at our policy convention?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: No. Frankly, I think the vast, vast majority of the party shares my viewpoint. They want to focus on economic issues, so I don’t think it’s an issue at all. Frankly, you look at the growth of the party that’s taken place under my leadership and I’ve made my viewpoints on this crystal clear from day one that I was leader. One of the first things I did was march in the Toronto Pride parade. And so during that period we’ve taken the party from 10,000 members to now we have close to 140,000. And by the end of the year we’re going to have 200,000. We’ve seen record membership growth. We’ve seen more people wanting to participate and get involved and volunteer for the party than we’ve ever had before. So something’s working and I think Ontarian’s are ready for positive, optimistic, reasonable change.
Vassy Kapelos: I remember when Justin Trudeau was campaigning to be prime minister and he told Liberal MPs, look you can have your own views but you have to vote along party lines when it comes to abortion. And Conservatives at the time were very critical of that. How is this any different?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: Well I’m the leader of the PC Party and I’m not going to cast insights into previous federal debates. But what I will say is, from my perspective, it doesn’t matter if you go to a synagogue, whether you go to an Evangelical church, whether you go to a mosque, whether you go to a Catholic church like I do, what counts is that you want to contribute to Ontario, and your private religious views you’re entitled to but I don’t want them to interfere with your work on public service in the legislature.
Vassy Kapelos: And finally, I just wanted to ask you, I know that obviously it’s no secret the Liberals popularity is not very high. The same was the case though in the last election. And I think a lot of your decisions here are being characterized as sort of trying to avoid defeat, your party defeating itself in this election. How much of what you’re doing is about that? And how worried are you that you could sort of make the same mistakes that your predecessor did?
PC Leader Patrick Brown: I’m just going to be sincere and honest, and frankly, by myself. I was proud even before I ran for the leadership of the PC Party years ago to be the first MP in my city’s history, in the City of Barrie, to attend the Pride flag raising. And I’m going to continue to just be that, be myself and speak honestly about where I want to take Ontario, how I think we can do better, how I’m going to help families make ends meet and get ahead. And frankly, I think if we do that and explain to the public that Ontario can do better that we can turn this ship around, I think we’re going to be in a good position on June 7th.
Vassy Kapelos: Okay, I’ll leave it there. Thanks very much for your time, Mr. Brown.
PC Leader Patrick Brown: My pleasure.
Vassy Kapelos: Up next, Food for Thought with Sport and Disabilities Minister Kent Hehr. We’re at his favourite hangout off Parliament Hill to talk politics and more.
Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back.
Just steps from Parliament Hill, in the heart of Ottawa’s Byward Market, is the Chateau Lafayette, known by locals as The Laff. This is truly the original dive bar. It’s the city’s oldest pub and it wears its history proudly. It was an easy pick for Sports and Disability Minister Kent Hehr.
Thank you so much for joining us, Minister Hehr. It’s so great to have you as our first guest for the inaugural Food for Thought segment.
Minister Kent Hehr: I tell you what, I’m excited by this. It’s great to be here with you and I know this show is going to be a resounding success.
Vassy Kapelos: I hope so. This is basically sort of my version of what the amazing Tom Clark used to do in his plane: Plane Talk. I unfortunately don’t have a plane, nor do I have any hobbies other than basically watching TV and eating and drinking, so I thought this would kind of be my version of that.
Minister Kent Hehr: Well we don’t have a plane but we got here, and often times, it’s just celebrating life at a place where you can sit down, have a bite to eat, share some conversation and get through a day with your fellow people you run into on the vagaries of the trail.
Vassy Kapelos: And we do that a lot on Parliament Hill.
Minister Kent Hehr: It really is, yes.
Vassy Kapelos: So why did you pick The Laff for us to do this.
Minister Kent Hehr: Well the Lafayette Pub, I’ve known it ever since I moved to Ottawa when I became a Member of Parliament. It’s a hop, skip and a jump from where I live right down in the market. And I was intrigued because when I first saw the sign it said, “Ottawa’s Oldest Pub.” And it was established in 1849, eight years before Ottawa actually became a city. Way before we became a country and I know one of the signs said, “Sir John A. McDonald slept here.” And when I talked to the bartender the first time, they said, “We don’t know whether it was in one of our rooms or whether it was on the floor.” So that immediately attracted me. It’s a place where vagabonds, rogues, princes and paupers can all hangout, share a laugh and come in and enjoy an evening.
Vassy Kapelos: And what’s your meal of choice here?
Minister Kent Hehr: I’ll get the sliders with the order of yam fries. And yam fries are maybe the world’s most perfect food.
Vassy Kapelos: What makes them the most perfect food?
Minister Kent Hehr: Oh, just crispy, tasty. You put a little chipotle sauce on them, the day never happened. You have yourself a couple of yam fries, the day never happened. Everything is good in the world. All your stress just melts away.
Minister Kent Hehr: Perfect.
Vassy Kapelos: Thank you so much. Hi.
Minister Kent Hehr: And I hate to do this to you. I’m going to need one more chipotle. Chipotle is a whole other food group.
Vassy Kapelos: So your portfolio recently changed. You were in Veterans Affairs.
Minister Kent Hehr: Yes.
Vassy Kapelos: Now you have a new portfolio. Some people sort of characterize it as a bit of a demotion. What do you think?
Minister Kent Hehr: It’s a thrill. I know it marries two parts of my life. I know a lot about sports, I grew up playing sports. I played junior hockey. I know how it impacts kids and families and communities across this country. I also know the significant impacts of disability.
Vassy Kapelos: I know you bring a lot of life experience to that role. I know a lot about your history having covered you in Alberta and since. But for people who don’t, for Canadians who are watching who aren’t sure about your personal story if you could sort of sum it up in 30 seconds what would you tell them?
Minister Kent Hehr: I grew up having every advantage in the world. Both my parents were very engaged in their kids’ lives. They were school teachers. I went to local public schools, played hockey, baseball, swimming. It was really a glorious childhood, graduated from high school, played junior hockey, started going to post-secondary education playing college hockey and then all of a sudden the music stopped. I was the victim of a random act of violence in October of 1991 that left me a C5 quadriplegic. Nothing I had done in my life up to that day had prepared me for that day. My family and I were left with some supportive friends, some help from government to try and rebuild our lives.
Vassy Kapelos: Was it ever hard not to be bitter about what happened to you?
Minister Kent Hehr: I will say getting to a new normal was more difficult. I was always grateful for the experience of life, always grateful. Even within a couple of days after this incident, I knew I was grateful to be alive. But I think the struggle of getting to your new normal: Who you are and how you’re going to build your life. That took about 10 years. But day by day things got better. Try new things, go back to school, make new friends, explore new opportunities, eventually get a law degree and become a lawyer. All those things don’t come easy and they take time. But where I am today and the appreciation I have for the entire experience of having a disability has been tremendously rewarding. Now look here, I wouldn’t have chosen to be C5 quadriplegic, but now that I’ve been through it, I don’t think I’d choose not to have it either. The experience has been wonderful and it has taught me more about myself, about sharing your life with people, about understanding the struggle of other people, and I think it allows me a little bit of that concept and that understanding that I possibly wouldn’t have had. I thought life was always pretty easy. I picked my parents well. I did that remarkably well and things just tended to work out for me because I was a pretty good athlete, reasonably smart, all those things. Things came easy for me. So would I have had that understanding of how people had to struggle, I hope so, but possibly not.
Vassy Kapelos: And what’s the most important thing it taught you about yourself?
Minister Kent Hehr: I think it’s always just keep on trying to go forward. Look, you can’t fear failure. Eighty per cent of life is showing up. And if you show up you’re going to get good at the other 20 per cent. And too many people don’t do that and I think from the experience I’ve had, I’ve learnt that the showing up is really the most important thing and you’ll learn it from there.
Vassy Kapelos: And that’s sort of served you as well in politics and especially like I remember covering you as one of three provincial Liberals in the legislature. Now you’re in the federal cabinet.
Minister Kent Hehr: It’s being present. It’s being present with your constituents. It’s being present when people are sharing their concerns. It’s being present when you want to deliver a message about what your government is doing. Your presence and your sense of direction and self and how you communicate that, has to be part of you in this business or else you don’t come across as being real or genuine.
Vassy Kapelos: That sums it. Thank you for talking to us. I appreciate it.
Minister Kent Hehr: There we go. This has been fabulous.
Vassy Kapelos: Thank you.
Minister Kent Hehr: Perfect.
Vassy Kapelos Thanks, Minister.
Minister Kent Hehr: You got it.
Vassy Kapelos: Great to see you.
Minister Kent Hehr: Great to see you.
Vassy Kapelos: Appreciate it.
And that is our show for today. To watch an extended version of Food for Thought with cabinet Minister Kent Hehr, you can go to our website: www.thewestblock.ca. We’re always eager to hear from you. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You can also check out our new podcast which you can find on Apple iTunes or Google Play.
Tomorrow, members of the House of Commons return following their Thanksgiving break and we’ll be following all the political developments here on the Hill.
Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m Vassy Kapelos. See you back here next week, for another edition of The West Block.
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