Transcript Season 5 Episode 9

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 9, Season 5

Sunday, Nov. 8, 2015

Host: Tom Clark

Guests: Dominic LeBlanc, Rona Ambrose, Susan Delacourt, Mark Kennedy

Location: Ottawa

On this Sunday, a new government promising a new era, now the real work begins for Justin Trudeau and his team. Government House Leader Dominic LeBlanc joins us to talk about what’s next.

Plus, a new face for the Conservative Party: Rona Ambrose is now the interim leader. Can she change the tone of the party and what should we expect from the remains of the Harper years? We’ll ask.

And then, unpacking the politics of Trudeaumania 2.0, how long can the honeymoon last and how should the new government take advantage of that?

It is Sunday, November the 8^th and from the nation’s capital, I’m Tom Clark and you are in The West Block.

Tom Clark: Well, we are now five days into the new Liberal government. The celebrations and the photo ops are done, now comes the heavy lifting. That falls to a group of 30 people: the new cabinet. And for the first time, half of them are women.

And joining me now is Dominic LeBlanc, the Government House Leader. First of all, Mr. LeBlanc, congratulations, not only on your appointment, but your electoral victory.

Dominic LeBlanc: Thanks very much Tom.

Tom Clark: To say that you’ve got a lot to do in the next couple of weeks, the next couple of months, is really such an understatement, but I want to start on a couple of things. First of all, one of the things that your government has promised to do is, for example, to pull out of the combat mission in Iraq and Syria. Are you going to bring that to the House?

Dominic LeBlanc: Again, I don’t think we’ve made a final decision with respect to what the parliamentary debate would be on that. We made that clear in the election campaign. We won a majority government. Canadians, when they voted for us and elected Liberal MPs across the country knew that that was a very clear commitment that the prime minister had made for months and months, in fact, before the election, reiterated during the campaign. My colleagues, the minister of defence, the minister of foreign affairs will obviously look at the mechanics of what that means in terms of our allies and what other contributions that we’ll be making in the fight against ISIL, but whether or not it was a parliamentary—

Tom Clark: Because it was authorized by a motion in Parliament.

Dominic LeBlanc: Sure, sure and the tradition I think is to get an authorization before we deploy into a combat mission—

Tom Clark: But do you need an authorization to undeploy?

Dominic LeBlanc: Again, we haven’t had a conversation in the cabinet or I don’t think that the foreign affairs minister or the defence minister made a decision in that respect, but it shouldn’t come as a surprise that we’re going to keep our campaign commitments. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody.

Tom Clark: Let me go to something that happened late last week. President Obama officially cancelled the Keystone XL pipeline. Is this in any way going to prompt your government to accelerate the process of looking at other options, such as Energy East? Is this something that is now going to land on your desk as shepherding the government process in that direction?

Dominic LeBlanc: Probably not. As you know, the review of mega projects like Energy East is done according to an independent environmental process under federal legislation. The prime minister has said for years that he thinks there needs to be a robust, independent and thorough environmental review, but also an engagement with First Nations and other communities affected. It crosses a number of provinces. It would ultimately finish in my province, in New Brunswick, should it receive the required approvals. We think that process has to run its course.

Tom Clark: You’re not going to speed it up as a result of this?

Dominic LeBlanc: No, we don’t want to interfere in the process. We respect the decision that the American administration took, according to American law and under American regulations. It’s a regrettable decision, but we understand the decision. We also think, Tom, that the American decision gives the new government an opportunity, frankly, to reset the relationship with the American administration, particularly on issues like working constructively against the global threat that is climate change, working constructively and ambitiously in advance of the Paris climate change conference coming up in a few weeks. So we think that it’s an opportunity, and I think the prime minister made that clear when he spoke with President Obama. It’s an opportunity to renew the relationship as a partner on a number of issues, climate change obviously being one of them.

Tom Clark: Will the House have the opportunity to vote on the Trans-Pacific Partnership?

Dominic LeBlanc: Our commitment was to have a thorough discussion in Parliament once the text has become available. As you know, it was released in New Zealand, the text. We think it’s important—

Tom Clark: You’re waiting for translation.

Dominic LeBlanc: Absolutely, it’s important for us to have the official French version of the text and I, in fact, spoke last week with my colleague, the minister of trade about how we would in the very short time that Parliament will meet in the first week of December or the second week of December, have a chance to consult parliamentarians. One option is to do it in some sort of debate in the House of Commons, a take-note debate. There are a number of instruments, maybe try and see if the Opposition parties would be interested in having the trade committee sort of be struck earlier or some ad-hoc committee of parliamentarians to hear also from Canadians, not simply from each other. So we’re anxious to consult with the Opposition parties and see how we could engage Parliament quickly, recognizing that we’ll have a week, maybe a little more than a week before Christmas break, and then Parliament would traditionally come back later in January.

Tom Clark: I want to ask you about something that happened literally just hours after you became government and this was the press release that we got about all the ministers: gender balanced, 15:15 in terms of male female. And then, we got this notice from the Privy Council Office which actually runs the Government of Canada to say well five of these ministers are actually junior ministers and guess what, all five of them were women, and that means they get paid less than their male counterparts? How could something like this happen? Why did we get something that was clearly not true or at least not completely transparent on day one, only to be corrected by the government a day later?

Dominic LeBlanc: Well Tom, what is transparent is that the prime minister reduced the size of cabinet by probably 25 per cent; a significant reduction from Mr. Harper’s previously bloated cabinet. He did not have a series of junior ministers. He wanted a cabinet of equals where all ministers had responsibility, in some cases for programs or departments or other specific assignments. If there was a technical requirement under some statutory obligation to designate ministers in terms of a cabinet structure, I think we’ve made it clear that that will be corrected—I think it requires a statutory change is the information we have and we would want to correct that at the earliest opportunity.

Tom Clark: Okay, I want to ask you about perhaps one of your biggest battles coming up and that is that you’re the ambassador to the Senate. I don’t know if you applied for that job—

Dominic LeBlanc: Ambassador to the Senate?

Tom Clark: Well—or yeah, the chief general going into the Senate.

Dominic LeBlanc: Does it come with immunity? I need immunity to—

Tom Clark: What are you going to do with the Conservatives in the Senate because you are outgunned in the Senate? If the Conservative senators decide that they’re going to hold up your plans, what are you going to do?

Dominic LeBlanc: Well first of all, I don’t think we start by assuming they’re going to hold up our plans. I think we have to assume they’ll exercise, the Conservatives and every other senator, will want to exercise their constitutional responsibility. We respect that. The prime minister has said a year and a half ago he wants a less partisan and more independent Senate.

Tom Clark: But don’t you need a stick at some point?

Dominic LeBlanc: You know, constitutionally, there’d probably be no stick. What would be the stick? The Senate has its role to play. At the end of the day, I don’t think that the men and women who serve in the Senate, many of whom are friends of mine, Conservatives senators and a number of others, are people that I’ve known for a long time and quite like. They want to do their job. They respect that the government was elected with a very clear mandate on a series of specific engagements, but I think we should keep an open mind in working with them. If they want to study legislation, make suggestions, offer amendments that improve the legislation, my colleagues from the cabinet will be expected to meet with Senate committees, discuss the details of proposed legislation and frankly, if they have constructive and positive ways to improve it, why wouldn’t we be open to having that conversation with them?

Tom Clark: Okay, Dominic LeBlanc, we’ll keep up this conversation as time goes on and I think you’ve shown the diplomacy already towards the Senate. We’ll see how long that lasts. Anyway, thank you very much for being here.

Dominic LeBlanc: I’ll look forward to it. Thanks Tom, have a great morning.

Tom Clark: Appreciate the time, thanks very much.

Well coming up a little later on the show, we will unpack the politics of this week with our political pundits. But first, the Conservative party has a new interim leader. Rona Ambrose talks to us next about the road ahead for them.

Crowd cheers/applause

Tom Clark: Well that was the Conservative caucus late last week cheering for their new interim leader, Rona Ambrose. She represents Alberta and has held numerous cabinet positions in the last nine years. In the coming weeks, she will have to name the new shadow cabinet and lead her party as it tries to change its tone, as the expression goes. But joining me now, from Toronto, is the Conservative interim leader, Rona Ambrose. And Miss Ambrose, despite what your colleagues were saying, the name is Rona, it’s not Rona, but maybe that’s one thing you’re going to have to teach them.

Tom Clark: Listen, late last week, President Obama rejected the Keystone XL pipeline. When you were in government, you put a lot of eggs in that basket. Your previous leader, Stephen Harper said it was a no-brainer, he wouldn’t take no for an answer. Well, we got no for an answer, so what went wrong?

Rona Ambrose: Well, I think what went wrong is that President Obama treated this project in a purely political fashion and I think what the energy sector and what Canadians and Americans, I’m sure expect, especially in that industry, is to have a process to vet these projects because they are multi-billion dollar, multi-year projected that they’re vetted in a way that is transparent and that it’s clear up front what the timelines will be, what the expectations are and that it be done based on science. So, it is incredibly disappointing that President Obama has decided to reject the Keystone XL. My understanding is there are still options for Congress and the Senate and so it sounds like the politics could continue, even after this rejection. My understanding is that somehow this project could be revived, but the overall storyline here which is really troubling for the energy sector is this idea of politics being injected into the approval process of a major multi-billion dollar infrastructure access to market pipeline project and that is a major problem for the industry. As you know, Tom, I come from Alberta—

Tom Clark: I was just wondering in your view, is it still a no-brainer?

Rona Ambrose: Well, you know, I guess we all assumed that the process would be followed, as it was laid out by the EPA, by the Environmental Protection Agency, and of course also by the State Department, so under those previous parameters, people expected it to be a no-brainer, but the political landscape shifted very quickly under President Obama and now it’s difficult to know because there’s that level of uncertainty for anyone who’s putting together plans over the coming years for a major infrastructure project to move oil to market. So it is a serious problem for the energy sector. As you know, I come from Alberta, and we’ve lost 50,000 jobs in the energy sector, so this news is not good news for Alberta.

Tom Clark: Let’s move to politics and politics closer to home for you. You are the interim leader of the Conservative Party, but I don’t think and I don’t want to put words in your mouth here, but are you functionally bilingual? Do you speak easily the two official languages of this country?

Rona Ambrose: Well, at one point I was fluent. So, I would tell you that I’m working very hard to get back to that and I think I just let my language to. I speak a few other languages as well and as anyone who does, you have to keep them up. So, I’ve told my Quebec caucus they’re only allowed to speak to me in French and so I’m practicing daily and my commitment to them is to be very functional, very quickly. So I’m going to do my best.

Tom Clark: Okay, regardless of which language you’re speaking, a lot of the discussion after the election, when it came to your party had to do with tone. I mean people knew, looking back on the Harper government years, that you were aggressively partisan and in some cases viciously partisan. What do you do specifically to change that?

Rona Ambrose: Well, my tone has never changed. I was ranked the most civil Member of Parliament in the House of Commons. I’ve always conducted myself the same way all these years, whether it was in Opposition or in the eight cabinet portfolios I held throughout the nine years I was in government. So that is the way I conduct myself. My colleagues chose me to be their interim leader until we have a new leader in place, so I’m going to take that as a reflection as that they appreciate the tone that I bring. Listen, we are the Official Opposition. We will be an incredibly strong Official Opposition. We will be effective and constructive, but I feel that we can be strong without being nasty and I think that we can be very substantive and I do not support pettiness in politics. So I hope that I will bring a new tone and I hope that my caucus appreciates that. I think Canadians will appreciate that.

Tom Clark: Do you issue instructions to your caucus now, in terms of how they deport themselves, how they make the arguments, the strong arguments? Are you going to be the disciplinarian as the leader?

Rona Ambrose: Listen, we have a great caucus. We have a lot of very experienced people. And listen, they are going to do a great job holding the government to account and that is what the Official Opposition’s job is. But as the leader of the party, and as the leader in the House, my tone will be respectful, but very constructive. And I’ve made that commitment, that’s how I’ve always operated, but I think we can be a very effective Opposition and still be strong, but not angry.

Tom Clark: Okay. Rona Ambrose and I point out it’s Rona and not Rona for all members of your caucus so that they get that, right? I appreciate your taking the time to be with us today. Thank you so much.

Rona Ambrose: Thanks Tom, appreciate it. Bye for now.

Tom Clark: Coming up next, we’re going to unpack the politics of Trudeaumania 2.0: how long will the honeymoon last?

Tom Clark: Well, this was the scene at Rideau Hall on Wednesday as Justin Trudeau got a reaction usually reserved for celebrities, not prime ministers. Many are calling this phenomenon Trudeaumania 2.0, a reference to the excitement that his father often generated decades ago.

Well joining me now to discuss how long this political honeymoon will last, Susan Delacourt, political author and columnist for the Toronto Star, and of course, Mark Kennedy, parliamentary bureau chief for the Ottawa Citizen.

So, let’s start with that question, how long can this honeymoon go on for because we’re only five days in, but they haven’t stumbled too badly yet.

Mark Kennedy: It’ll go on for a while. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’ve got months of this. There’s no doubt. I mean, listen, look outside here now, they’re not sunny days now, but we are experiencing just within two or three days of being sworn in, he has to deal with an issue like Keystone, tough question. How does he deal with whether or not we have a pipeline that ships oil out of our country? On the other hand, as he heads towards Paris and the UN climate change conference, what are we going to do as a nation to ensure we are potentially in lockstep with the US on ensuring we reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Those are tough questions and they are going to disappoint some people, no matter what he does.

Tom Clark: And you know Susan, the interesting thing is when the scene finally moves inside the House of Commons and we get into the daily Question Period and so on, you look across the aisle, you see the NDP who are diminished and probably dispirited. You’ve got the Conservatives who have an interim leader, but they’ve got their own internal strife. I mean, is he going to have an easy ride for the next couple of years?

Susan Delacourt: Well, it’s an old saying in politics as we all know that you’re really not done in by your enemies. You’re done in by your friends. So I do think he’s probably got an advantage in the House for a little while that the other parties are reeling a little bit. But I think to the point of when the honeymoon ends and when he runs into trouble, usually political parties run into trouble because of their own people. So it will be interesting to see how they react when one of their new minister’s stumbles or Justin himself, as he’s been known to do, says something that he shouldn’t say. I’m really encouraged at the moment by the fact that they’re letting people speak. I’d like to see a bit more, but I think the test for them will be can they keep their keep their sunny ways when the clouds are like this.

Mark Kennedy: I mean the other thing we haven’t seen, it was remarkable being at Rideau Hall on the day of the swearing in, seeing thousands of people lining up, wanting to touch the new prime minister, wanting to have photographs taken with him, wanting to have him sign their books. We can’t minimize the importance of this. There is something happening here. There is an undercurrent of good faith in this country towards that man.

Tom Clark: So do you then take that sort of rock star moment and I agree that once he steps on the stage internationally, it may in fact increase when the rest of the world starts taking notice—

Susan Delacourt: Which they already have, really. Yeah.

Tom Clark: That he’s not like the other leaders out there, but politically, do you then seize that moment when everybody else is sunny, even though the weather isn’t, and start doing the really tough stuff, whether it’s tax increases, whether it’s diverting the economy for climate change, all the stuff that may be politically unpopular, can we expect to see that sooner as opposed to later?

Susan Delacourt: I would definitely expect to see some of the tough stuff. He’s gotta get through some really tough democratic issues too. The Senate, what’s he going to do with that? If I were him, I would move quickly with this goodwill to jam some things into the Senate because there will be no appetite from the public to see either former Liberal senators or Conservative senators blocking what’s going on in the House of Commons.

Mark Kennedy: The thing about political leadership is that one man, one woman, can do an awful lot and we always forget that. You know, we go back to the days of JFK, he inspired people. If one person in a position of power inspires people, he can bring a country with him. He can bring the premiers of the nation along with him and that includes everything from climate change to trade, who knows what else. So if he has a window right now then he ought to jump right into and use it.

Susan Delacourt: Yeah, nobody wants to be on the bad side of this, you know, nobody wants to be the naysayer. It’s been very interesting to see the gentle criticism from the Conservatives and New Democrats. And, the rule in politics too is those who set the terms of the game, win the game and everybody now seems to think that the goal in politics is to be sunny, optimistic and say cheerful nice things, and it’s been interesting to watch. Two months ago would we have predicted that? No.

Tom Clark: Because you mentioned the Opposition, let’s just take a look at the Conservatives at the moment. They have an interim leader, Rona Ambrose, but one of the things that sticks out about her is that she’s not bilingual. She doesn’t speak French. And although many people and the rest of the country might say well that’s no big deal, in federal politics, I’m wondering if it is a big deal. How can you have a national leader who doesn’t speak both languages?

Mark Kennedy: Well, in her job, for the next few months, perhaps the next couple of years will be to stand up every day and she will be the lead off questioner, day after day after day. If she never speaks a word of French, what are the people of Quebec supposed to think about that party? It could damage them.

Susan Delacourt: I was more intrigued by the fact her answer—it was a very simple one and it was in English, I’m here. And it was in response to people didn’t like your party in the end. And I think there was a lot of strife inside the party and I think her victory as leader is a bit of a slap in the face to the old hands who had been supporting other candidates. So, I think there is a huge house cleaning going on in there. I think the party, let’s be truthful, has basically given Quebec the back of its hand for a bit now. Harper was not pleased with Quebec for the last few years. So I think more of her job is to get the people out of the party that were accused of bringing—well, I just say it, Jenni Byrne and those people.

Mark Kennedy: Her job will be to bring a new tone because when she was cabinet minister, I honestly can’t remember instances in the House where she was mean. I mean the Tories developed a reputation for being mean. Did she have that reputation? Not necessarily so.

Susan Delacourt: She did a few—you know the stuff about marijuana and health minister was a bit, but it was more reading what she was told to read so it will be interesting to see if she changes the tone.

Tom Clark: And we haven’t touched on Tom Mulcair. But a quick word on Tom Mulcair?

Mark Kennedy: Tom Mulcair, I still think is probably scratching his head. He’s probably wounded. He’s probably angry at himself. He’s probably angry at the party. He’s angry at the world. He just has to walk into the House of Commons on December 4^th and do his job.

Tom Clark: Okay, we will be watching. Susan Delacourt, Mark Kennedy, always great to have you guys here. I appreciate the time.

Susan Delacourt: Thanks.

Mark Kennedy: Thank you.

Tom Clark: And, that is The West Block for this week. I’m Tom Clark. Thanks very much for joining us. And we leave you now with some of the sights and sounds of what have been some pretty amazing days here in Ottawa. See you back here next Sunday.

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