Tom Clark:
Hello and welcome to The West Block on this Sunday, March the 18th from a very foggy Ottawa. Not the first time that things here have been hard to make out. I’m Tom Clark.
Well on today’s show, an exclusive interview Russia’s ambassador to Canada, Georgiy Mamedov. For the first time, he speaks publically about the spy case involving a Canadian naval officer charged with passing secrets to a foreign country. We will ask him, was that country Russia and how extensive is Russian espionage in this country?
Later in the show, we speak with two candidates vying to lead the NDP. Thomas Mulcair, we’ll ask him about the broad side from Ed Broadbent fired at him last week and Nathan Cullen on being the underdog but maybe, just maybe the one to watch.
And we’ll reach into our virtual mailbag to find out about what you have to say on some of the latest hot button issues.
But first, an exclusive interview Russian’s ambassador to Canada, Georgiy Mamedov. Now before we hear what he has to say, here’s a West Block Primer on some of the major stories putting Russia in the headlines over the past few months.
West Block Primer:
In mid-January, Royal Canadian Navy Sub Lieutenant Jeffrey Delisle is led away in handcuffs, charged with leaking secrets to a foreign entity. Following Delisle’s arrest rumours swirl. Four Russian diplomats left Ottawa, were they linked to the spy case?
Across the globe, in Syria the violence in getting worse; the UN Security Council tries and fails twice to pass a resolution calling for an end, calling for Bashar Al Assad to step aside but China and Russia say no.
Two weeks ago, Vladimir Putin greeted supporters in Moscow claiming victory as the new Russian president, but his opponents say he rigged the vote and stole the election.
And joining us now is Russia’s ambassador to Canada, Georgiy Mamedov. Mr. Mamedov, thank you very much for being here.
Georgiy Mamedov:
Thank you for inviting me. I heard that your show is a stunning success (Tom laughs) and I want to be a part of its glamour.
Tom Clark:
(Laughing) Well, on that friendly note, let me start the interview. This is the first time that you have spoken publically since the matters in January where a sub-lieutenant of the Canadian Navy was arrested on chares of espionage. Was Jeffrey Delisle passing information to your government?
Georgiy Mamedov:
Well, first of all, I am very thankful to the fact that I am not in the loop. I learned about this gentleman that you mentioned from newspapers. So whatever will unfold later, I will also learn either from you or from your newspapers. Do you like Bruce Springsteen? My favourite song is I’m an Innocent Man, so I can assure you Tom that both your humble servant and people who work for me here are innocent men.
Tom Clark:
But you are saying, if I read you correctly, you’re not denying that Russia carries out spy activities in Canada.
Georgiy Mamedov:
No, I am neither denying nor confirming it. I would be a fool, and I would give you a scoop I don’t intend to if I confirm that we are doing as much. Like I’m saying my job is not spying. My job is to keep our relations in good shape.
Tom Clark:
Let me just clear up one last issue on this story. In January and in December there were a number of people who worked at the Russian Embassy here in Ottawa who left to go home and the implication on the part of many was that they left because of the Jeffrey Delisle espionage case. Did you feel at any time any pressure to have these diplomats leave their posts in Ottawa to go back to Russia?
Georgiy Mamedov:
Suffice it to say that I feel absolutely confident that the true facts will come out at the end of the day. I don’t know, It may take you know, days or weeks or years.
Tom Clark:
At the time when it was revealed that a number of your staff left the Russians said at the time this was just a normal rotation. There wasn’t anything extraordinary about their leaving. Are you saying now that you’d rather just not even comment on that?
Georgiy Mamedov:
I can only say that you know, some of your friends who publish stories without you know checking facts out, without actually knowing what are the facts are very lucky that diplomats in general, in Russia diplomats in particular are not in the habit of libel suits. If this answers your question to some extent, take it.
Tom Clark:
Ambassador, let’s move on to some other things now. I want to ask you about Syria and the Russian position on Syria. When the UN Security Council came up with the resolution that essentially demanded that Assad step down, Russia and China vetoed that Security Council resolution. With everything that we’ve seen in Syria, the amount of violence, the growing discord in that country, does Russia still support Assad and want to keep him in power?
Georgiy Mamedov:
Our problem with the previous resolution that we had to veto was that it was unbalanced. That it actually acts for the capitulation of the lawful government, legitimate government in the face of insurgency.
Tom Clark:
But virtually every country in the world, except for Russia and China of any significance has said that Assad’s time is up, that he’s got to go, and that the world is circling Syria on this.
Georgiy Mamedov:
Tom, give me a break. I arrived here almost nine years ago and I was grilled the same way about Iraq by Canadian journalists. And at the time, it was a confirmed you know universal wisdom that we’re on the wrong side of history. Even Liberal media in the United States applauded I’m in this victory and I remember all this rumours about weapons of mass destruction and so on and so forth. I feel pretty comfortable with our position. I am not a supporter of violent regime changes. If I were you, I would sit back and think why Al-Qaeda leaders are on your side in Syria, fighting Assad regime. It would give me a pause at least, and of course you know Russian position is very transparent. We asked for humanitarian assistance. And by the way Russia, I don’t know why is the only country that so far has provided humanitarian aid to Red Cross in Syria.
Tom Clark:
But you also provided weapons to Assad’s regime.
Georgiy Mamedov:
Well, absolutely but those weapons are anti-aircraft and you can’t claim that insurgence have planes. So it’s not the weapons that you use against demonstrations and we are not ashamed of providing these weapons in case there is external aggression against Syria and it’s a very volatile region. Our weapons will be used for national defence. You just have to check the list and you will see what we provided to them. It’s an open secret.
Tom Clark:
I want to move on to the election of Vladimir Putin, once again as President of Russia. I’m wondering how you react to the claims that there was massive voter fraud, that Putin basically stole the election? How do you react to those allegations?
Georgiy Mamedov:
Very easily, I think first of all that all of our friends, friends of Russian people like you and others should applaud the fact that we have a vibrant civil society, finally. Twenty years after demise of totalitarian Soviet Union that Russian people don’t want to take corruption, you know mistreatment, economic problems stemming from global crisis just lying you know meekly. They’re just like Americans who occupy Wall Street. They’re like Canadians who occupied Ottawa and occupied Vancouver. I think it’s a very healthy sign. Yesterday, I leafed through newspapers and saw a public opinion poll, which said, how popular are politicians in Canada? Who trusts politicians here completely? One percent, not too many you know out of 100. So if you consider us to be like you; the same kind of human beings, you know not martians, not some kind of villains if you are prepared to give us the benefit of doubt, you should encourage you know this new show of independence by Russian population. As to the results of the elections, even our lunatic fringe opposition consider that Putin won during the first round of elections. Yes there are irregularities, but you here in this country understand everyday, disguised as robocalls and irregularities in your own midst so we’re the same human beings. Yes, we are work in progress and I think it’s a huge progress even if you compare it with the parliament elections last December.
Tom Clark:
Ambassador Mamedov, it’s a great pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.
Georgiy Mamedov:
Thank you Tom and again you’re doing a great job here.
Tom Clark:
Well coming up after the break, interviews with Thomas Mulcair and Nathan Cullen. Stay tuned.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back to The West Block. Well next week by this time we will know who the new leader of the official Opposition will be. The federal NDP Leadership race winds up Saturday in Toronto and if controversy and political heat are leading indicators then Thomas Mulcair may be the man to beat. The MP for Outremont joins us now from Montreal. Mr. Mulcair, good to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.
Thomas Mulcair:
Thanks Tom for the invitation.
Tom Clark:
I want to go over some of the remarks you’ve been dealing with. Ed Broadbent said this about you last week and just to give some context, just want to remind everybody what…a few of the things he said. Mr. Broadbent said the following, he said, “it would be a central mistake for us to move in a calculating way to the centre”, referring to you. He also said, “Thom has talked about boiler plate democracy.” What does he mean by that? Is he saying that concern about equality is a boiler plate item? It’s not, it is a core value. That’s pretty unusual to have a party elder get involved in a leadership campaign. Was that inappropriate on Mr. Broadbent’s behalf?
Thomas Mulcair:
We made a conscious decision at the beginning of this campaign to remain optimistic, upbeat, positive, and stay on the high road, so I’ll let other people interpret those words. What I do know is I have 43 of my caucus colleagues who are supporting my campaign. I have three former NDP premiers, Ed Schrier who is not only a former NDP premier of Manitoba by he is a former governor general. I’ve got Mike Harcourt out of BC, Pierce McDonald; former NDP premier of Yukon. I’ve got the two candidates who left this race endorsing my candidacy so I’m pretty happy at the support that we’ve managed to garner. We’ve never talked about why you shouldn’t vote for somebody else. We’ve tried to convince NDP members to come to us to us because we think we’ve got the best ideas for how to bring the party forward. With regard to the notion of whether or not… I’ve never said that I want to bring the party to the centre. You’ll never find me saying that. What I have said is I want to bring the centre to the party. In other words, reach out beyond our traditional base. Do like we did in Québec; talk to people who liked our ideas but for whatever reason had never voted for us before.
Tom Clark:
Let me go to one of the other areas of concern, especially for people who will be voting next week in the leadership contest and it’s the question of how deeply you’re committed to the NDP. In 2007, just before you joined the NDP, you said to a weekly newspaper in Laval, Québec, you said, “Once a Liberal always a Liberal.” And I wonder what you meant by that because that sort of opened the door now, you know, you’ve got Paul Dewar for example questioning whether you are truly an NDPer, whether you can carry the mantle and so on. What did you mean by, “Once a Liberal always a Liberal”?
Thomas Mulcair:
Well don’t forget, in the province of Québec there is only one federalist party and it’s a Liberal party that accommodates left and right. Three of my cabinet colleagues have been NDP candidates, including the person who sold me my NDP card when I was 19-years-old, so that’s the reality of Québec politics. There is no NDP provincially. There’s no Conservative Party provincially. There’s one federalist tent that accommodates left and right, so that’s the simple reality here. But don’t forget, when I did quit cabinet on a question of principle, I had refused to sign an order in council transferring land in a provincial park to private developers who wanted to build condos. I was approached by all the parties and I choose to work with Jack Layton. I choose to become his Québec lieutenant and build up the party when we were in single digits in Québec. As recently as 2000 Tom, we got 1.8 percent of the vote in Québec. On May 2nd, we got 43 percent. I think that those results speak for themselves.
Tom Clark:
I want to go to issues of policy now because that ultimately is going to be what you are going to be about and I’ve done this with some of the other candidates. Look at it as sort of a rapid fire round. I’m going to give you an issue, give me in a few words or one sentence what your reaction is.
Thomas Mulcair:
Sure.
Tom Clark:
So first of all, corporate tax cuts, would you eliminate them?
Thomas Mulcair:
I would certainly go back to a proper level and I would add a new level for non-renewable resources.
Tom Clark:
Long-gun registry, would you bring it back?
Thomas Mulcair:
Not that registry, because it was flawed and we were able to show that there were irritants in it that were unnecessary. For example, the compulsory criminal prosecution but we have to find a way to register the weapons and it is a question of public protection.
Tom Clark:
The Omnibus Crime Bill, would you repeal parts of it or would you repeal all of it?
Thomas Mulcair:
I’d repeal most parts of it. The idea of telling the courts that a young person who has got a few pot plants is going to jail compulsorily without even looking at the facts of the case is usurping the role of the courts who’s very job it is to look at these things as a neutral arbiter and say well this is what has to be done in this case or that case. The Conservatives don’t believe in the courts. They want to decide these things in advance. That’s the type of mistake we’re making. We have the lowest crime rate in Canadian history but we’re going to be sending a lot of people to crime school, especially young people who will come out and it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. They will have become good criminals.
Tom Clark:
Would you decriminalize marijuana?
Thomas Mulcair:
No, I think that that would be a mistake because the information that we have right now is that the marijuana that’s on the market is extremely potent. It can actually cause mental illness so I think that I would do is suggest that we recreate something along the lines of the famous Le Dain Commission on the non-medical use of drugs that tabled its report 40 years ago. Get the best medical experts, the best legal experts and the best law enforcement experts around the table.
Tom Clark:
Thomas Mulcair, one week to go before the convention. Thanks very much for being with us. I appreciate your time.
Thomas Mulcair:
Thank you very much for the invitation. See you there.
Tom Clark:
Well, let’s go to the other side of the country now to Interview another leadership candidate. Everybody loves the underdog. Well that’s what Nathan Cullen said shortly after throwing his hat into the ring. Underdog maybe but Cullen is no rookie. He has held the British Columbia riding of Skeena Buckley Valley since 2004 and he joins us now from Vancouver. Mr. Cullen, welcome to The West Block.
Nathan Cullen:
A real pleasure…a real pleasure to be here.
Tom Clark:
You some people are trying to classify you as to where you stand in the NDP ferment, either on the right or the left or the centre. Ed Broadbent took a swipe at one of your opponents, Thom Mulcair, saying…quoting, he said, “it would be a central mistake for us to move in a calculating way to the centre”. As somebody who may also be in that centre area, how do you respond to that?
Nathan Cullen:
I mean I have the world of respect for Ed Broadbent and all that he has been able to accomplish for our party and for the movement. I think the logic though and the trying to assess candidates by right and left actually is a failed way about going about this. I think actually, the question is, which candidates are willing to move the party forward and which are looking more over our shoulder to the past? I think, as a proud New Democrat our history has been incredibly important to us and this country, yet the steps that are necessary to take us to government are where my central aim is. So, I mean some people will try to break it down, right, left; I was the party’s environment critic. Jack put me in charge of that file for a number of years and I also ran a small business before getting into politics. So I think understanding all facets of what it is that the Canadian people are looking for and what it’s going to take for us once we’re actually in government, I think is important. Well, some are going to try to split the race right and left, I’m much more encouraged by Canadians who are saying who’s willing to not be satisfied with official opposition? Who says that a progressive government can finally take shape in this country and reflect the majority of progressive values that are out there?
Tom Clark:
You brought up environment which takes me to your opposition to the Northern Gateway pipeline. You’re also asking for a ban on oil tanker traffic off the Northern coast of British Columbia, but I’m wondering though, as a national leader, don’t you have to look at a bigger picture about what is economically good for this country; the entire country?
Nathan Cullen:
Absolutely, and I suppose the good fortune of this bad issue is that both on the environment and the economy running a pipeline 11,000 km to BC’s coast from Alberta filled with raw bitumen from the oil sands is both environmentally and economically a bad idea. So while this project so happens to go through my home and through my riding in North Western BC, its scope and scale is of national significance, this ties us to an energy future that is solely dependent on carbon energy. It also hooks us to a market that makes no sense whatsoever. When we open up these pipelines we also send out tens of thousands of jobs and so that’s not a British Columbia question. It’s not just an Alberta question but it’s a Canadian question.
Tom Clark:
In the short time that we’ve got left Mr. Cullen, I want to do a bit of a rapid fire round with you just to touch on a few other issues here. I’ll give you an issue; give me a quick answer to it.
Nathan Cullen:
Sure.
Tom Clark:
Would you reverse the corporate tax cuts?
Nathan Cullen:
Yeah, we need to move then up to at least 20 percent, which is still dramatically lower than what they are in the US.
Tom Clark:
Would you restore the long-gun registry?
Nathan Cullen:
No, I think we need effective gun control that works for gun owners and for the safety of the public.
Tom Clark:
Would you repeal all or part of the Omnibus Crime Bill?
Nathan Cullen:
Virtually all of it, there are some pieces of that crime bill that are costing billions and completely ineffective for Canadian safety.
Tom Clark:
Would you legalize or decriminalize marijuana?
Nathan Cullen:
That’s a interesting and challenging question. The war on drugs has been an outright failure. I think we need to take a total relook. I’m not much one for legalizing, I think it maybe send the wrong signal. Decriminalization may be an option that certainly the police and mayors are talking about quite a bit.
Tom Clark:
Nathan Cullen thanks very much for taking the time out of a busy schedule to talk to us and we’ll see you at the convention in Toronto.
Nathan Cullen:
Yeah, we’ll see you in Toronto. Thanks Tom.
Tom Clark:
Well after the break, we hear from you on some hot button subjects. Feedback on last week’s interview with Premier Christie Clark and what you made of the robocall affair, that isn’t going away any time soon. Stay with us.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back to The West Block. Our Facebook has been bursting at the seams these past few weeks with comments about robocalls and everything else that’s been happening on and off the Hill so we wanted to share a few with you.
Now last week we interviewed BC Premier Christie Clark and during our discussion we touched on the teachers strike in that province and that touched a nerve with many of our viewers in British Columbia.
Just as a reminder, here’s what Christie Clark had to say:
Christie Clark:
“In British Columbia, we are negotiating zero and zero with teachers, we are negotiating zero and zero with the rest of the public sector unions as well. I am not going to go back to British Columbians to raise taxes in order to give government workers a raise. I just don’t know how we can justify that in tough economic times.”
Tom Clark:
Well reacting to that, Nicole Kealy writes:
“The main issue is this anything but legal Bill 22 that Clark is trying to impose on teachers. The most infuriating aspect of this bill…is the slap in the face the government is hitting schools with by stripping class size and composition limits. That mandate will have a direct debilitating on all of our children and their education.”
On Facebook, Dwayne and Cathy Hodgson write:
“I do not support another 15 percent 3-year raise for teachers and think that they are way out of touch with economic reality of today. How can teachers say they support students if they are willing to saddle our kids with more debt so they can increase their bank balance?”
And we continue to get a number of comments about the robocall affair. This weekend, the Prime Minister’s former Chief of Staff, Ian Brody said that the scandal should warrant, “a huge investigation”.
Now here’s what you had to say:
Dave Krulitsky writes, “This makes Canada look exactly the same as some third world dictator-led country that rig elections to stay in power.”
Andrew Bowen writes:
“This is not about political party preference or beliefs. This is about Canadian democracy being hijacked during our May 2011 federal election.”
And finally, Kathy Nelson says, “So far there is no hard evidence of anything connected to the Conservative Party. It is all innuendo and smear tactics by the opposition.”
Well we always welcome your feedback. Go to our Facebook to sound off on this week’s question. We want to know what you think about the NDP leadership race. Our Facebook site is: The West Block. You’ll also find us on Twitter @TheWestBlock.
Well that is our show for this week. Now the MP’s on the Hill have got the week off. The fog has lifted so I guess we did our job, but by-election in Toronto Danforth and the NDP Leadership Convention – heavy week. Anyway, thanks for being here. Hope to see you here again next Sunday. I’m Tom Clark. Have a great week.
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