The West Block — Episode 29, Season 10

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 29, Season 10

Sunday, April 11, 2021

Host: Mercedes Stephenson

Guests:

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and

Disability Inclusion Minister

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor

Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Mercedes Stephenson: COVID-19 variants explode, threatening to overwhelm ICUs and outpace Canada’s vaccine rollout.

Dr. Theresa Tam, Chief Public Health Officer: “We cannot afford to give this virus an inch. The only way to get out of this crisis is the hard way.”

Mercedes Stephenson: Fragile public trust and frustration as some provinces head back into lockdown.

Doug Ford, Ontario Premier: “The reality is despite everything that we’ve done so far, the COVID-19 situation in Ontario is getting worse.”

Mercedes Stephenson: And saying goodbye to Prince Philip: Remembering the man who spent more than seven decades walking two steps behind the Queen.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “Prince Philip will be remembered as a champion for young people, a decorated naval officer, a dedicated philanthropist, and a constant in the life of Queen Elizabeth II.”

Mercedes Stephenson: It’s Sunday, April 11^th. I’m Mercedes Stephenson, and this is The West Block.

Canadians are mourning the death of Prince Philip. He died Friday at the age of 99. The quietly charismatic royal, Prince Philip, carried out more than 20 thousand royal engagements, headed hundreds of charities, and he founded the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award. Prince Philip made dozens of visits to Canada, many times to personally present his award to young Canadians.

Joining me now is former prime minister Jean Chrétien, who was appointed by the Queen to the Order of Merit, an exclusive group limited to 24 living members. It included Prince Philip and includes his son, Prince Charles.

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien joins us now. How are you, sir?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: Fine, fine and you?

Mercedes Stephenson: Very well, thank you and we appreciate your time this morning. I know that you had many opportunities over the years to interact with Prince Philip. You were both members of this order, of course, also as the prime minister of Canada. What stands out to you as the way that you’ll remember the prince?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: It was always very pleasant to meet with him. He was a very, very interesting companion at lunch or a cocktail and travelling with him, something I did in 1970 for four days and I keep a great memory of an exceptional individual with a lot of colour and who played his role as he should be, but he had a way of expressing himself and being quite candid on occasion. So it was something that pleased me a lot.

Mercedes Stephenson: When was the last time you saw the prince?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: I saw him probably a year and a half ago at the last meeting I had at the Order of Merit. We meet every year and a half, you know, he was—and I think I met him three—the day I was—in a previous time, it was when—it was exactly the day that he said that it was over. He was not to do anything on public service that he had done enough. And as you mentioned, you know, he told me, “I had unveiled 25 thousand plaques so I think it’s enough,” he had said to me. You know, and he was a very pleasant chap. I remember when we were that day, probably at—if I recall, it was at the Windsor Castle when the, you know, and I sat next—I sat to his right and we had quite a lunch. It was for him. He wanted to know my views on what was going on, particularly, at that time, about president Trump. So it was a very pleasant encounter because I could give him the impression of a Canadian about this unusual president.

Mercedes Stephenson: Well now I’m very curious about what the two of you talked about there.

Mercedes Stephenson: You’ve also met the Queen a number of times. This obviously is a devastating loss for her. And you lost your own wife of over 60 years during a pandemic, the same difficulty of so many Canadians who have lost loved ones in a time when we cannot breathe normally, when we cannot gather together in the way that we would. And as someone else who has been in the public eye and knows what it is to have that partner in your life who was there through the incredible highlights and the very difficult times, what advice would you give the Queen on coping with this kind of a loss?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: She is a very courageous woman. I met her since 1967. I had many private discussions, even, you know, when I was minister of justice at the time of patriation of the Constitution. I had to brief her a few times in London and I met her on her visit in Canada. So I know—I  had very many occasions to discuss with her many situations and she’s a very courageous, intelligent and dedicated person. So she will face the storm and it’s going to be difficult. I went through that, to lose your partner of—for me, it was 62 years of marriage and five years of friendship and the situation’s even longer for prince—the Queen and Prince Philip. So—but, you know, with the help of her family and so on, she will face the reality. And as usual, she will do it with grace and courage and discretion.

Mercedes Stephenson: Mr. Chrétien this is a very difficult time for a lot of Canadians. We’re in a third wave of COVID-19. People are worried about their health. They’re worried about their jobs. People are talking about whether there is a crisis in public trust, of government officials at all levels. We’re waiting to hear about what the Liberal budget will entail, about the government’s plan to get out of this. You’ve been the prime minister of this country, what advice do you have for our leaders on what needs to be done in Canada to lead us out of these very dark and difficult days of the third wave of the pandemic?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: You know, when you’re prime minister or premiers, you get up in the morning and you have to do your best on every day that you’re facing, and I think that everybody have this time of crisis, every premier and the prime minister and the ministers are very preoccupied. There is no easy solution because you have to listen to the advisors who are in the science field and the people who are on the economic side who are preoccupied about the growth of the economy. Of course, this has hit us badly. It’s created a recession. We seem to be getting out of the recession. I was watching on Friday the report on the creation of jobs. In the last month, we’ve done quite well in Canada. There is no easy solution and I’ve been in a lot of crisis’ in my life and what you have to do is to do your best and at the end of the day, to be able to tell yourself I’ve done my best.

Always when you’re in public life, there are always people who applaud and sometimes more people disagree. But, if they’re not happy with you, there’s a nice solution when come the election. And I’ve been elected, for me, 12 times in my district and three majority governments. I was one of the few lucky ones who never knew any defeat. But every time of every election, the first speech I would prepare would be the speech in case I will be defeated. It’s better to write it at the beginning of the campaign than to write it when you have been defeated because when you’re short of winning, you tend to be generous in your speech of defeat. But if you’re on the spur on the moment, you can say something stupid that will destroy your image forever. So, public life is difficult and all the premiers and the prime minister are doing their best. I would disagree with some of the things they do, but I’m not there and I don’t want to be the Monday morning quarterback.

Mercedes Stephenson: What are some of the things you would disagree with?

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: If they ask me, I will tell them but not through TV.

Mercedes Stephenson: Well thank you for joining us and thank you so much for taking our questions. We hope that you are well and you stay well and we have the opportunity to talk to you again soon.

Jean Chrétien, former prime minister: It was my pleasure to be with you today, Madame and good Sunday.

Mercedes Stephenson: Thank you, sir.

Mercedes Stephenson: Up next, more lockdowns leading to more people at risk of losing their jobs. What’s the federal government going to do about it? We’ll find out. Stay with us.

Mercedes Stephenson: Going to work is something that many of us took for granted before the pandemic. But now many Canadians are at risk of losing their jobs in the third wave as variants drive more lockdowns. Over 1.5 million Canadians are unemployed and it’s expected to get worse before it gets better. How will the Trudeau government respond as they get set to release their first budget in two years on April 19^th?

Joining me now is Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, Carla Qualtrough. Thank you for joining us, minister. How are you?

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: I’m well thank you, nice to see you.

Mercedes Stephenson: You know, a lot of Canadians are—are very concerned today. They’re—they’re watching these lockdowns that are happening across the country, small businesses that survived the first and second set may not survive the third. The government is promising we’re going to get out of this, but we haven’t seen a lot of strategy so far. So what is your strategy as the minister who’s in charge of the workforce to get Canadians back on track?

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: Well, I would slightly disagree with that because what—what I think we’ve seen, and today’s job numbers show, is that our focus on supports for workers and supports for businesses have resulted in businesses very quickly rehiring when they have the opportunity to do so. So although I don’t think next month’s job numbers will be as hopeful because they will reflect the lockdowns that are happening now, I think businesses and indeed workers can take comfort in the fact that when businesses open there will be jobs and people will be hiring very quickly. The job numbers are rebounding very quickly after these waves. And I know that that is small comfort for people today, but also I want to remind people of the supports that are available through the Canada Recovery Benefit while they’re waiting to go back to work.

Mercedes Stephenson: One of the criticisms your government has faced is over sick days. You did introduce a program that allows for federal sick days, but experts say it takes a long time to actually get the money out of that and in those cases with people who are living paycheque to paycheque, they can’t wait that long and that even when they do get the money, it’s not as much as when they were working. Are you looking at addressing that and fixing the program so that it’s more likely that those who need to take sick time can do so?

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: A good question , and of course as we’ve been doing since the beginning, we are always looking to make improvements to our programs, which is why we recently added another two weeks onto the Canada Recovery Sickness Benefit so now workers have up to four weeks. I mean, to be honest, I’m not sure what numbers you’re talking about in terms of the time it takes to get the benefit. The vast, vast majority of workers are getting it within three days if they have a direct payment through CRA. And we’ve always ensured, I think, since the beginning that paid sick leave was a foundational piece of all of our income supports: CERB, now the Recovery Benefit, of course, EI. But we really are challenged to get people to actually apply for this. There’s a real disconnect that we’re trying to—to really dig in on.

Mercedes Stephenson: Why do you think that disconnect exists? What’s—what’s causing that if the program is working?

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: Yeah, well we’ve got a couple of, of—of things we’re looking at. First of all, a lot of people are just going directly to the Canada Recovery Benefit, so claiming the Recovery Benefit even if they’re off work because they might have symptoms or have been told to go home because they are in contact with someone who’s sick. So a lot of people are just going directly the Recovery Benefit and not taking the Sickness Benefit. Also they’re turning to the employer programs first instead of the Recovery Sickness Benefit. But I’m—I’m constantly out there trying to get people to, you know, really take advantage of the fact that there’s four weeks of—of sick pay for them. It is not at—at their wages always and we’re, you know, working closely with provinces and employers to—to kind of message this as a complimentary measure, available to every single worker in this country who—who isn’t working because of COVID or sick leave—or sorry—self-isolation or quarantine. But this isn’t an instead of what they get through their employer or provinces, in addition to what they get or if they don’t get anything.

Mercedes Stephenson: You were saying earlier that you’re—you’re confident that job numbers seem to rebound once businesses stand back up, but obviously, the third wave will take a significant toll on Canadians. What are you planning going forward because the current programs might be working under the current circumstances, although there’s certainly lots of criticisms of them as well, but if this get worse, what do you have up your sleeve?

D Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: So, you know, right now we’ve recovered, as of, you know, the March numbers, about 91 per cent of the jobs that were lost during the pandemic. But as I’ve said and as you’ve said, this—this will most likely change and the numbers will dip in the negative again because of this third wave and lockdowns. And what we’re constantly looking at is how we can improve and pivot our income supports both for individual workers but also for businesses to kind of reflect the reality of what we’re seeing around the country because there’s different things going on economically. You know, I’m—I’m here in British Columbia, where businesses are still open and kids are still in school everywhere and that’s a very different reality than what you’re seeing in Ontario and Quebec. So, we’re looking to make sure our—our programs and supports can respond nimbly to different realities across the country.

Mercedes Stephenson: When it comes to essential workers, a lot of people are saying look, we need to look at who we’re vaccinating. They should be prioritized: teachers, people who are working on the frontlines in grocery stores. I know this is a provincial jurisdiction, but do you think perhaps as the minister in charge of the workforce, you should be looking at a program for the federal government to set aside some vaccine for essential workers, especially those who work for the federal government?

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: Well and that is exactly what’s happening on the side of the federal government. So there’s a federal allocation of vaccine that we distribute to the populations that we’re responsible for within the federal workforce so Corrections Canada, Border Services, Indigenous communities. And what we rely very heavily on is the recommendations by NACI, which is everybody knows what NACI is now all of a sudden, which is the National Advisory Committee on Immunization and they’re really focused on, you know, which stages—at which stages, which populations they recommend should be vaccinated, but ultimately it is a provincial decision, which isn’t to say that we’re not all working very closely. I speak regularly with my provincial employment colleagues and we talk about, you know, what is the target? What’s happening in this meat packing complex? What’s happening over here in this community, to really try and—and be as cohesive as possible, federal, provincial, but their—the approaches by the provinces are—are different and—and justified to them.

Mercedes Stephenson: Okay. Minister, that’s all the time we have for today, but thank you so much for joining us.

Carla Qualtrough, Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion Minister: Nice to see you, take care.

Mercedes Stephenson: Thanks, you too.

Up next, calls to vaccinate hard hit essential workers: An interview with Mississauga Mayor Bonnie Crombie.

Mercedes Stephenson: In Ontario starting tomorrow, hospitals are halting all but emergency and life-saving surgeries due to the growing caseload of COVID-19 patients. At the same time, Ontario is in a lockdown and stay-at-home order in a desperate attempt to pull the emergency brake.

Mississauga Mayor Bonnie Crombie is at the heart of one of the worst hit regions in the country and she joins us now. Thank you so much for joining us, Mayor Crombie. You are in the middle of such a—a difficult place, such a hot spot in Canada. And one of the things that you’ve said you believe would make a difference is prioritizing cities like Mississauga to receive the vaccine. Do you think that we should be taking vaccines from less hard hit areas and moving them to hot spots?

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor: Well Mercedes, when your house is on fire, it doesn’t make any sense to be watering the house—the homes around you. You need to attack and address the hot spot, where the house, where the fire is occurring. That’s how you address it. So here in—in Peel, Mississauga, Brampton, Caledon, we’re 10 per cent of the population of the province of Ontario, yet we’re 20 per cent of the cases of all COVID cases and we seem to be increasing at a rate of 35  per cent each week, for the past couple of weeks. It had been 20 per cent, and now with the spread of the new variants, we’ve been increasing 35 per cent per week. So the situation is quite dire. Our hospitals are full at capacity. They’re transferring patients out. We are seeing younger patients with more severe symptoms and they’re staying much longer in the hospitals so the situation is very dire. So yes, of course, we think that the vaccine should be directed to the hot spots, the inferno, as the premier has called us so they can do the most work. Let’s be honest, if we can’t get the virus under control here in the hot spot zones, in Peel and the City of Toronto, we can’t stop the virus. It will continue to control us. We won’t be controlling it.

Mercedes Stephenson: Who do you think should be prioritized to receive those vaccines? We’ve been doing it according to age, but I know you’ve talked about essential workers as being a priority?

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor: It’s a great question and I’m so grateful that there’s a greater supply of vaccine coming in now and it’s made a huge difference. So we at first—at first, the framework allowed for the most vulnerable to be—to be vaccinated, our seniors who were hardest hit, most impacted in the first wave and then again in the second wave. So once we vaccinated everyone in the long-term care homes and in the seniors’ homes, we went 80 plus, 70 plus. Then it was time to address, really the frontlines, those essential workers that are keeping our economy going. In those large workplaces, we’ve all heard the stories about Amazon with 900 cases. Canada Post as well here in Mississauga, a great number of cases as well. It’s those frontline essential workers that are in manufacturing, factory workers, food processing, warehousing, etc. And, because we’ve had to close our schools here in Peel on Easter Monday, right up until the 18^th, we think that our educators should be on that list as well and of course, our transit drivers because they’re front facing to the public as well. And so I’m very grateful that earlier in the week, the premier has made that adjustment and realized that unless we get the people who most need the vaccine and those large workplaces where they are transmitting the virus, then taking it home, increasing the community spread, we won’t get control of it.

Mercedes Stephenson: There’s been a lot of discussion between the federal, provincial governments and the local. When you look at the situation in Peel that is so dire, who do you believe is accountable for how bad things have gotten?

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor: So, I’d rather look at that differently. You know, I think people have confidence when they see three levels of government working closely together and it has been very important that we work closely with our provincial and our federal partners and I’m very grateful that the premier has adapted the framework to address the situation. So when we realized that we had vaccinated the most vulnerable, now it was so important to move to those critical areas in our economy that have been so severely impacted are the essential workers on the frontlines and address that situation. The only other thing I would like if he could address the sick pay along with the federal government. I think we need paid sick leave and paid sick days on real-time. Not make the application after you’re sick and not be paid to stay home waiting to hear the results of your test. People are still choosing to go to work. They’re choosing their paycheque over their health and their recovery. So this is a very important issue as well. It’s one that has not been adequately addressed yet and I’m hopeful that the federal and the provincial government will work closely to address it. Now that we’re addressing the essential workers that they will soon be able to get their vaccine, we’ve moved to 50 plus, vaccinating 50 plus in Toronto and in Peel and we’re now addressing the educators, our teachers and the essential workers through many of the mobile units that have been set up.

Mercedes Stephenson: Mayor Crombie, do you think that we should be rapid testing truckers and essential workers coming across at the border? We just have a few seconds left, but I know a lot of them are coming into Mississauga.

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor: Yes, and certainly the logistics business, trucking and transport businesses are based here in Peel, whether in Brampton or in Mississauga. I think rapid testing is vital. I think all the large employers here in Peel should implement the rapid testing program. I know they’re available. I know the federal government has a store of rapid tests and I think it’s very important, whether it’s at our borders or it’s in those large places of employment that we use the rapid testing.

Mercedes Stephenson: Mayor Crombie, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate your time.

Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga Mayor: Thanks very much for having me.

Mercedes Stephenson: That’s it for this week’s edition of The West Block. I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Thanks for joining us. Stay health and we’ll see you right here next week.