NDP MP Nathan Cullen took to the skies with Tom Clark this week to talk politics, career ambitions and macaroni and cheese.
The conversation was part of the West Block’s Plane Talk series, which sees pilot and host Clark crammed into his Cessna 172 Skyhawk with political movers and shakers, asking them about their lives both on and off the Hill.
Cullen even took the controls for a while, joking that he’d like to “buzz” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Harrington Lake retreat.
WATCH: In this extended version of Plane Talk NDP MP Nathan Cullen tells Tom Clark about life after politics and why he nearly resigned as an MP.
Read the full transcript:
Tom Clark: Nathan Cullen, welcome to ‘Plane Talk.’
Nathan Cullen: Thank you very much, I love it.
Tom Clark: You know how this works?
Nathan Cullen: Yeah.
Tom Clark: I ask you a few questions. We get to know you a little bit.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah, yeah.
Tom Clark: What’s the worst thing about politics?
Nathan Cullen: That intelligent people get together and do really stupid things for partisan reasons, or for ego or vanity.
Tom Clark: Are you talking about your caucus?
Tom Clark: Do you want to be prime minister?
Nathan Cullen: I don’t think so.
Tom Clark: Really?
Nathan Cullen: Yeah, I don’t think so.
Tom Clark: Is that the truth?
Nathan Cullen: Yeah.
Tom Clark: Okay.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah, yeah. If I were going to spin it a bit, I’d say, ‘oh who knows, maybe one day, it’s you know’ — but it’s got a personal cost equation for me when I look at — I admire people who pursue it. I admire people who are able to sustain any kind of sanity while doing it, integrity. But I think the cost of leadership is enormous and not just for the person, I think the family. I think for your friends.
Tom Clark: What’s the one thing that happens in the House of Commons on a daily basis that grates you the most?
Nathan Cullen: People reading things that they don’t believe and often don’t understand. I know, it’s radical, but if you’re going to get up and talk about some bill or some issue facing the country, then have an honest and original thought about it.
Tom Clark: I just want to ask you a couple more personal questions. Then we’re going to get onto something else.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah.
Tom Clark: What type of music do you listen to?
Nathan Cullen: I got a real love for early hip hop and Beatles. Those sort of occupy a lot of my play list right now. I’m—
Tom Clark: Okay, let me put you on the spot.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah.
Tom Clark: Favourite song. What’s your favourite song?
Nathan Cullen: Ah, favourite song, wow. There’s a whole album called ‘Check Your Head’ from the Beastie Boys.
Tom Clark: But one song, what’s the favourite song?
Nathan Cullen: What You Want is great. It’s just this raw sort of great. It hit me at university. It was perfect.
Tom Clark: Okay, but now I’m going to ask you, can you sing a little bit of it?
Nathan Cullen: No way, man.
Tom Clark: Oh, come on.
Nathan Cullen: You want me to rap?
Tom Clark: Yeah.
Nathan Cullen: That is such a—
Tom Clark: Oh, come on.
Nathan Cullen: That is career suicide.
Tom Clark: Come on, it’s just between you and me. Nobody else is around here.
Nathan Cullen: Well there’s a line that I really like.
Tom Clark: Yeah.
Nathan Cullen: I don’t even know if it’s in that song and it goes, “Because she’s the cheese and I’m the macaroni.” But I’m always — it’s going to run through my head sometimes when I’m in Parliament and I want to see if I can slip it into a speech some time.
Tom Clark: She’s the cheese and I’m the macaroni.
Nathan Cullen: And I’m the macaroni. Like it’s just it’s like we go together. We go together. You know, we’re meant because she’s the cheese and I’m the macaroni. And that is all I’m going to do for you. That’s it. That’s more rapping than I’ve ever done. I thank God I didn’t name some of the other bands that I like.
Tom Clark: I know you’ve been in a lot of small planes before, bush planes and that sort of thing, have you ever flown one?
Nathan Cullen: Yes. Yes, back in—
Tom Clark: Okay, so you’ll be able to show me how well you do flying a plane.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Clark: Now right over there is Herrington Lake.
Nathan Cullen: Oh yeah.
Tom Clark: You can’t go there. You can’t go there because you’re the third party.
Nathan Cullen: Oh, that hurts. It’s too soon man.
Tom Clark: This is the prime minister’s summer residence here.
Nathan Cullen: You don’t think I can buzz the residence without getting into some kind of trouble?
Tom Clark: You could do it once.
Nathan Cullen: Right.
Tom Clark: Yeah.
Nathan Cullen: Well, I think parliamentary privilege should allow me access to do really dangerous things like this.
Tom Clark: No, seriously, we can’t go there.
Nathan Cullen: Isn’t it a bit creepy? Okay, I shouldn’t say creepy.
Tom Clark: What’s that?
Nathan Cullen: Well, I admire ambition when somebody says ‘I’m in this, and I want to go there and I’m going to be the leader of this or the leader of that.’ I admire that. That’s very purposeful. But when someone wants it real bad, a little creepy, you know what I mean?
Tom Clark: You’re talking about politics?
Nathan Cullen: Yeah.
Tom Clark: Okay.
Nathan Cullen: Yeah, I like a little reluctance in my politicians.
Tom Clark: What was your worst political moment?
Nathan Cullen: There was a lot of pressure on our party around, you remember, the gun registry and all of that. And I come from a riding that was not supportive of it and I wasn’t going to vote for it, but it was so close. It was one or two votes. And Jack (Layton) asked me to switch and I didn’t want to and I wouldn’t, but he was very — and I understood why he was insistent. And so, I just made a private conversation with myself where I said I’ll do the switch, but I resign that night. And so I went into the House with my resignation letter and we didn’t know. We didn’t know how the votes were going to work out and they didn’t need my vote in the end, so I stayed voting the way I told my constituents I was voting and kept my resignation letter in my pocket. That was the worst moment. I felt sick. I felt like physically sick, which I’ve never felt that way before.
Tom Clark: I ask this to a lot of politicians: do you believe in losing as much as you believe in winning?
Nathan Cullen: What do you mean by that?
Tom Clark: Are there circumstances and times when you have to hold onto your principles even though it means that you know you’re going to lose an election?
Nathan Cullen: Maybe, but I think sometimes it’s held up as an excuse, especially from the left. You can either have power or principles, you can’t have both. And I hate that type of thinking. That is absolutely wrong because it leads to some really stupid conclusions.
Tom Clark: Alright, Nathan Cullen, thank you very much for being here.
Nathan Cullen: That was great. This was a real privilege. Thank you for not killing me. I think that’s wonderful that we’re back on ground.
Tom Clark: That’s our test for how well things went. Yes, if you’re still alive at the end of it, then it went well.
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