The West Block Transcript: Season 6, Episode 23

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 23, Season 6
Sunday, February 12, 2017
Host: Vassy Kapelos
Guest Interviews: Ambassador David Wilkins, Jake Tapper, Ambassador Werner Wnendt
Location: Ottawa

On this Sunday, the prime minister sits down for the first time with President Donald Trump in the White House tomorrow. Trump wants to renegotiate NAFTA and make NATO countries pay up, and he wants more screening at the border. How should Canada respond?

Then, media south of the border face daily rebukes from the president and his staff calling outlets like CNN, ‘fake news’. What happens with the government is at war with the media and how does it affect political coverage?

Plus, the prime minister heads to Europe this week to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel. We’ll look at what the two leaders can do to convince countries like the U.S., internationalism is better than isolation.

It’s Sunday, February 12^th. I’m Vassy Kapelos, and this is The West Block.

Justin Trudeau will finally get his highly anticipated meeting with President Donald Trump tomorrow. The stakes couldn’t be any higher. Last week, three cabinet ministers were in Washington to press the case of close economic trade and security ties between our two countries, but will any of this help when it comes to NAFTA, immigration and border issues?

Joining me now from Grenville, South Carolina is David Wilkins, the former U.S. Ambassador to Canada under President Bush. Thank you so much for being here Mr. Wilkins, it’s great to have you back on the program.

David Wilkins: Great to be on the show. Thank you very much.

Vassy Kapelos: I want to start off by asking if you were advising our prime minister on his meeting with President Trump on Monday. What advice would you be giving him? What would you be telling him to say and do?

David Wilkins: Well first of all, I wouldn’t begin to give your prime minister any advice. But if I was in his office and thinking out loud with him, I would say let’s accentuate the positive. We have so much to be proud of with this U.S.-Canada relationship. We’ve got the largest trade relationship in the history of the world. We have NORAD, which is the premier defence pact the world has ever known. So let’s build on our successes and let’s accentuate the positive and look at ways we can create even more jobs, more opportunity, and more prosperity for both our citizens on both sides of the border.

Vassy Kapelos: Given what we’ve heard from President Trump though on trade, on NAFTA, do you think even though those statistics are there, those facts are there, Canada has reason to be worried?

David Wilkins: Well I want to just respectively ask everyone not to jump to conclusions. Don’t prejudge. The trade balance between Canada and the U.S. is fairly equal, much different than the trade deficit that we run with Mexico. And keep in mind that this president is a very pro-business, job creation type of person. That’s what he’s done all his life. He’s surrounded himself with a lot of savvy, smart business folks. They understand that the Canadian trade puts food on the table for millions of Americans as does our trade with Canada support it in putting food on the table for many, many Canadians. So I just wouldn’t prejudge. I think his administration is going to actually be very positive and very beneficial to Canada in the long-run. As we create jobs, as we grow their economy, as we create prosperity that benefits Canada. Canada doesn’t take jobs from the U.S. Canada and the U.S. together creates jobs for both countries.

Vassy Kapelos: So far, we’ve had a number of minister’s travel there to try and emphasize a lot of the things you were talking about, trying to emphasize how great this relationship between our two countries is and how important it is. Is there anything else that Canada should be doing to try and strengthen those ties in light of the uncertainty surrounding what President Trump may do?

David Wilkins: Well again, you’ve got a lot of positives of sale and you need to sell them. And that’s what you’re doing. I commend your officials and the prime minister for laying the groundwork for this very important meeting coming up Monday by sending his ministers down to talk to their counterparts. That’s vitally important. I remember the first meeting in the Oval Office between Prime Minister Harper and President Bush in 2006 and I was there and witnessed that. And it was a very positive meeting. It was historic and it’s a good way to start the relationship off on a good positive note. I think personal relationships in the top matter, and this is a good opportunity for both your prime minister and our president to develop a good relationship.

Vassy Kapelos: That actually leads me right into my next question because when you mentioned Prime Minister Harper and President Bush, they were aligned in terms of a number of values, recently over for example, the so-called travel ban our prime minister spoke out against it. Their values, President Trump and Prime Minister Trudeau are perhaps not as aligned. So how far do you think or how problematic could it be for our current government? How far do they go at the risk of for lack of a better term, ticking Trump off?

David Wilkins: Well you know, I don’t think those have to be obstacles. There are always going to be disagreements and differences and you work around them. What you try to do is build consistency. We’ve heard a lot about NAFTA. Mr. Trump has said he wants to renegotiate NAFTA. Secretary Clinton said that. Senator Barack Obama nine years ago said that. So this is not really anything different. And there’s no reason why both sides can’t sit around the table and work together to improve NAFTA to the benefit of both countries. We have so much more in common than we have differences and our countries have had different immigration policies, different visa requirements for decades so that’s not really different. But we have a lot in common. We’ve already talked about NORAD. We’ve got the trade. You’ve got the second day in office, Mr. Trump gave the green light to Key-XL and that’s something Canadians have been wanting and he approved that after a long delay of it. And so I think we can build on the positives, build on the commonalities and then try to work around the differences.

Vassy Kapelos: Do you like what you’ve seen so far from President Trump, sir because I know you didn’t support him for the Republican nomination? What do you think of what you’ve seen so far?

David Wilkins: Well I did vote for him and I’ve been very pleased. I think all Americans want to see action. You’ve got now a Republican president and a Republican House and a Republican Senate and what you’ve seen in the first three weeks of the Trump administration is almost non-stop activity and energy getting things done. And I think the American people; the large majority appreciate that energy, that work ethic that we’ve seen so far.

Vassy Kapelos: I’ve got not a lot of time left, but I wanted to ask you about your thoughts of the speculation around Sarah Palin as the next ambassador to Canada.

David Wilkins: I have no reason to believe that’s accurate. There’s a lot of rumours, a lot of speculation going on. I do think it’s important for this president to get his person in Canada in the embassy there to report back to him and to represent his views in

Canada, but I certainly don’t give any credence to that rumour at all. I have nothing to confirm that that is any way accurate.

Vassy Kapelos: Do you think she would do a good job though?

David Wilkins: Well I’m not going to speculate. I’m going wait on the announcement and then I’m going to support whoever the U.S. ambassador is because I obviously want them to succeed and do a good job representing our country and your country.

Vassy Kapelos: Okay. Thanks so much for being with us, sir.

David Wilkins: Sure. Thank you.

Vassy Kapelos: Still to come, what message will the prime minister and German chancellor want the rest of the world to hear when they meet later this week? But first, the media versus the Trump administration. How is this adversarial relationship affecting politics and political coverage?

Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. Media south of the border have come under attack from the White House. Some organizations such as CNN have been called ‘fake news’. Others have been told they failed to cover a range of stories, including terrorist attacks, crime and positive opinion polls. So what impact is this having on politics and political coverage?

Joining me now from Washington is Jake Tapper, host of The Lead on CNN. Thanks so much for being with us. We’ve been watching your show non-stop lately.

Jake Tapper: Thank you.

Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to start off by asking you about the things President Trump has said about the media. I know he’s called CNN, ‘fake news’. He’s called reporters and the media in general dishonest. What has it been like being in the middle of it all?

Jake Tapper: Somewhat surreal because obviously a lot of the things he describes as fake news are true stories that he simply doesn’t like. So it’s odd and frankly, bizarre. But at the same time, it doesn’t deter any of us. I mean I think we’re determined to report aggressively about this administration just as we did the previous administrations. CNN broke the story about the Veterans Affairs scandal in the Obama administration, so we’re just going to keep doing our jobs. I guess the question really is not what do I think about it or my colleagues in the media, but what do Republican law makers on Capitol Hill think of it because they’re the ones that ultimately will either start rebelling against the behaviour of the president of the United States or the ones that will acquiesce. So, I’m really interested to see what they think.

Vassy Kapelos: It’s interesting, we actually just interviewed a Republican, David Wilkins, who was the ambassador to Canada and he had not supported President Trump during the primaries or anything of that like and now he’s fully supportive. I’m wondering what do you think about that balance in Congress, do you think that there will be some sort of upswing against Trump and is there any kind of timeline in your mind for that?

Jake Tapper: It’s no timeline in my mind. It’s difficult to predict. First of all, a lot of the Republican leaders and Republican members of Congress support a lot of what President Trump wants to do and they want to get those things done, such as tax reform, such as changing immigration laws, that sort of thing. So, they have an interest in preserving a good relationship with the president because they want to do those things for the American people. But then of course there are other things far beyond whether President Trump calls CNN ‘fake news’, there’s this issue that The Washington Post and the New York Times are currently reporting on which has to do with the fact that President Trump’s national security advisor, according to nine intelligence officials, spoke with the Russian ambassador before President Trump took office, around the time that President Obama imposed new sanctions against Russia. And even though Mike Flynn, the national security advisor denied having spoken about those sanctions to the Russian ambassador, these national security officials are now saying, ‘No he did. He did speak about sanctions.’ So far beyond the name calling or issues of serious import and how Republicans respond to that because I don’t think they give a hoot about whether or not I get called a name, but they do theoretically at least, care about whether or not there is some relationship between the United States government now, President Trump and Vladimir Putin that they can’t explain and they can’t support either.

Vassy Kapelos: On those issues of import, has it changed the way your organization—I know you have a lot of resources, but has it changed the way you deploy them? Have you had to hire more fact checkers? Is this different at all—I know you compared it to the last administration, but from a birds-eye view, it seems like there’s a lot more fact checking going on. There’s a lot kind of more interviews in that style. Has it changed the deployment of resources? Are you doing things differently?

Vassy Kapelos: Has there been anything that’s surprised you over the past month, three weeks or are you kind of growing immune to what you just described?

Jake Tapper: No, I’m not growing immune to it and I don’t want anyone in the media to adjust or lower our standards for truth or facts or basic decency. The thing that surprises me the most is that so much of this behaviour that we’re covering is so self-defeating. President Trump has a perfectly legitimate argument to make when it comes to, I think, the four main issues on which he was elected: cleaning up Washington, so-called draining the swamp, the idea that the federal government Congress and presidents have not been on the side of the American worker when it comes to renegotiating trade deals or negotiating trade deals, and the fact that in his view, the United States government hasn’t done enough to protect the borders or protect the country from terrorists coming in. Those are all perfectly legitimate issues to discuss and to seek policies to address. And what’s strange to me is all this other noise that distracts from these things that he wants to do, you know, he has the lowest approval rating of any president at this point in their term in the history of polling in this country which I think goes back to the 1940’s. So that’s what’s odd to me is the behaviour is so against his own interests. I would much rather be covering those policies than correcting facts that are not accurate, correcting lies. But we follow his lead. We cover him.

Vassy Kapelos: Well I appreciate your time and your insight and great to have you on the show.

Jake Tapper: Thank you so much. As you know, I’m half-Canadian, so hello to all my cousins out there.

Vassy Kapelos: Up next, the prime minister will meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel later this week. What can these two leaders do to promote liberal democracy in a Trump era?

Vassy Kapelos: Welcome back. Later this week, the prime minister heads to Germany where he and Chancellor Angela Merkel will discuss NATO, Russia and the UN. Given Trump’s presidency, Brexit and the increase in populous movements around the world, what message can these two democratic leaders offer to get other countries to move away from looking inward?

Joining me now is German Ambassador Werner Wnendt. Sir, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Great to see you.

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Good morning, my pleasure.

Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to ask you, back in December I was listening to then U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and he called German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Justin Trudeau, our prime minister, ‘The last two Liberals standing,’ are they?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well I don’t know if they are the last ones. But certainly it’s true that Canada and Germany have a very similar agenda, political agenda, economic agenda, we are supporting a lot of free trade agreements between Canada and the European Union. We have a similar position when it comes to many of the challenges we are all confronted with. In this regard, I think this is a special relationship and a very good one.

Vassy Kapelos: Is it even ‘more special’, using your words, now given what’s happening south of the Canadian border with the new administration and the values being espoused by the Trump administration?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well we are in the same position I think as any country in the world is, and definitely Canada is a neighbour of the United States and Germany is a close ally of the United States and partner, that we have to find out what is the position of the United States of the president of the new administration with regard to the many, many issues we are confronted with and the sense we are working in the same direction establishing contacts in Washington. The prime minister will visit on Monday as you know and of course that’s good that afterwards he will come to Europe to Strasberg and then to Germany. We welcome this very much.

Vassy Kapelos: Any meetings in the works with the chancellor and President Trump?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well with President Trump we don’t know yet to date, but obviously that has to come. Definitely President Trump has confirmed that he will come to the G20 meeting later this year that is taking place in Hamburg because Germany is chairing this important group of countries in 2017.

Vassy Kapelos: When the prime minister, right after he meets President Trump, he’s actually heading over to Germany later this week to meet with Angela Merkel. What do you think their message together will be?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well I think whatever the prime minister brings from Washington, of course it’s very interesting to hear this and see what he has to say. But I think the chancellor has made it clear that in the public statement also when she was calling the president of the United States that definitely we want to be a close friend and partner and ally of the United States as we have been ever since the end of the Second World War of course. But that is also our understanding that this must be on the basis of not only common interests but also common ideas, common values.

Vassy Kapelos: What are the common ideas and values between Germany and the United States or just specifically, President Trump?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: We have a very similar view of the world with the United States. I mean we are—

Vassy Kapelos: Even with President Trump?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well this will need to be seen when we are, as I mentioned already, all governments in the world probably are looking forward to work with the United States to find out what the position of the president of his administration will be. This is all developing as we know and there are surprises sometimes, but generally we trust that our relationship with this very important partner will continue to be a very important relationship.

Vassy Kapelos: As far as common ground between Canada and Germany of course support for NATO is in that grouping. Donald Trump is not so supportive of NATO and he’s calling on Canada to up its contribution to 2 per cent of defence spending basically. Do you agree with that? Do you think Canada should be contributing more?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Yeah, I think so. The issue of fair burden sharing within the NATO alliance, of course the United States is by the biggest economic but also military and political power in the world makes its contribution. But it’s fair and it is not only the present administration in Washington what I think has been a demand or a request of the previous administration, including President Obama that there should be done more by allies of the United States in the NATO alliance and that is true for, I think, Canada as well as it is for Germany. Canada at present, I think, stands at slightly under 1 per cent of the Gross National Product (GNP) being spent on defence and Germany is probably 1.2 per cent. And the chancellor has already made it clear that we are ready, Germany is ready to do more to invest in defence. It’s in our common interest. This is a dangerous world. There are challenges from terrorism and other developments worldwide so we need to be prepared. But NATO is indispensable for all of us. There is no question for Canada, for Germany, for European partners, but also for the United States.

Vassy Kapelos: We don’t have much longer, but do you think that Chancellor Merkel will be bringing up the issue of defence spending with Prime Minister Trudeau will be putting the pressure on to make the same commitment she has to increase spending?

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Well there are so many things. They probably will and need to discuss. I can’t tell you whether they will raise this particular question. But our future role in NATO or NATO’s role in Europe and in the world in the future is of course a very important topic. And I think here as with many other issues, we are very much on a similar line. We do understand the importance of NATO. We do understand the importance of contributing to NATO because we need the protection. We need the capacities and capabilities of NATO, but we need also to be ready to contribute.

Vassy Kapelos: Great. Well thank you, we’ll all be watching the meeting this week. Appreciate your time.

Ambassador Werner Wnendt: Thank you.

Vassy Kapelos: That is our show for today. We’re always eager to hear from you. You can find us online at www.thewestblock.ca. You can also reach us on Twitter and Facebook. Thanks so much for joining us. I’m Vassy Kapelos. See you back here next week.