WATCH: Full broadcast of Season 4 Episode 33, featuring interviews with three mayors on Ottawa’s proposed mass transit fund, a talk with one of Canada’s top tech CEOs about C-51 and a topsy-turvy Plane Talk segment.
Host: Tom Clark
Guest Interviews: Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson, Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi, Toronto Mayor John Tory, Conservative MP Laurie Hawn, Vidyard CEO Michael Litt
Location: Ottawa
On this Sunday, the federal budget promises $1 billion per year for public transit. Is that enough to deal with the infrastructure crisis? We’ll ask the mayors of Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto.
Then, the government’s sweeping new security legislation. Leaders of Canada’s booming high tech sector say, it will hurt the economy and kill jobs. A digital superstar speaks out.
And, things go just a little sideways when we take Conservative MP and former fighter pilot Laurie Hawn for a spin.
It is Sunday, April the 26th and from the nation’s capital, I’m Tom Clark. And you are in The West Block.
Well in the federal budget last week, the government announced a new Public Transit Fund, nearly $1 billion a year to reduce congestion and fight gridlock in large cities. But this funding doesn’t start for a couple of years and how soon will anyone notice an improvement?
Well joining me now, Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson and from Calgary, Mayor Naheed Nenshi. Welcome to you both. Thanks for being here.
I know there have been a few disagreements recently between the two of you, maybe over something called hockey, but we won’t get into that. This is going to be a friendly discussion. But what I want to address this morning is the new infrastructure plans in the federal budget. And the simple question is this and Mayor Nenshi, perhaps you can start this. First of all, is it enough and is it coming soon enough for you?
Naheed Nenshi:
Well the answer to both the questions is no. It’s not enough and it’s not coming soon enough, but I don’t want to sound that negative. This federal government has in fact done some important things for cities and in this budget they did something that we’ve been calling for, for a long time. Canada has long been the only G7 nation that does not have a national transit program and a national transit strategy, and the federal government created one, something that the big city mayors have been calling for, for many, many, many years. This is a big deal and I really want to see how Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Mulcair are going to react as we go into an election because as we’ve been saying for months, the mathematics of this election are whoever wins the urban areas gets to be prime minister. And you win the urban areas by decreasing congestion, by funding transit, and by funding housing. And so, this is a great start. It’s not enough money. We’ve got to iron out the details. It should really be focused on the big cities and on rail-based transit because if that billion dollars gets diluted across the city we won’t be able to do the things we need to do, but it’s a very good start.
Tom Clark:
Gregor Robertson, what’s the view from Vancouver?
Gregor Robertson:
Well, I definitely agree. We’ve worked very closely together, Naheed and I, and other big city mayors across the country, pushing hard to get a long term commitment to public transit funding from the federal government. It’s been woefully inadequate for many years and it’s been an ad hoc funding process historically which is very difficult to plan for when you’re putting in multi-generational infrastructure like heavy rail lines, subways, and light rail. You need long term commitments. So, again, I totally agree. It’s great to have the commitment to that long term program existing now. We would like to see the money sooner of course and I think over time, there’s not enough funding there to satiate the needs of the cities across the country. The traffic congestion is very serious and right across the country we absolutely need to be investing in public transit urgently and at a higher level than what’s currently booked in the budget.
Tom Clark:
I’m wondering if I can ask both…
Naheed Nenshi:
And it’s a really, really big deal.
Tom Clark:
Yeah, go ahead…
Naheed Nenshi:
You know, the C.D. Howe Institute states that in Toronto alone, congestion costs the economy something like $11 billion a year. You know, that’s the entire revenue of Canadian Tire. And so this is not just an argument that cities want more, that the mayors are out there. It’s a direct investment in the quality of life of Canadians. Every minute you spend stuck in traffic is a minute you don’t spend at work or a minute you don’t spend with your family. And I think finally, we have governments, provincial and federal, that understand that investments in transit are amongst the best investments we can make in people’s quality of life. Municipalities have always known that and now our partners of the other orders of government are starting to figure it out.
Tom Clark:
And even though this may not be a time to point fingers, but isn’t there something in all of this that says this is the consequence of successive governments of all stripes, of all parties over the years ignoring the infrastructure needs of the big cities because like anybody knows who’s trying to renovate their house, the longer you let the roof go, the more expensive it’s going to be. Is that essentially right, Gregor?
Gregor Robertson:
Yeah, I think that’s a fair assessment. We’ve definitely slipped way behind as a country on infrastructure and we feel that front and centre in our cities, whether it’s our waste water. We absolutely need more infrastructure funding to upgrade our waste water plants. At this point we have point we have new federal regulations coming in 2020. So this government has said we need to have a more stringent regulation on waste water but there is no funding provided for those upgrades. So we’ve got thousands of projects basically that need the funding to be upgraded and in the meantime, our waste water infrastructure is falling way behind, and we’re polluting waterways and the like. So, there’s roads, bridges, transit are a key part of that and also Naheed mentioned housing. Affordable housing is a real crisis across the country. That’s basically infrastructure that makes a city and a country work, and succeed. And we absolutely need support on that front as well.
Tom Clark:
Yeah, and Naheed, you were mentioning this, the waste water issue, I mean when you take just the City of Calgary itself because I think a lot of people don’t know this, what portion or what percentage of your debt now is dedicated to waste water of all this?
Naheed Nenshi:
Over half of our debt as a city is for water and waste water assets. And again, you never think about this and the way I like to put it is, in the City of Calgary, we’ve got close to half a billion buildings. And in every single one of those…half a million buildings, excuse me. And every single one of those buildings, there’s a tiny little miracle. A miracle that a billion people in the world don’t have and that miracle is a tap. And out of that tap comes healthy, fresh water that won’t harm you and your family. And there’s a toilet. And the toilet flushes and it goes somewhere and you don’t have to think about it anymore. It’s incredibly important to public health. It’s a ticket to the game for even having a community, and it’s unbelievably expensive. So we’ve got a federal government that says there are these new standards that must be in place. A lot of cities are going to have trouble meeting those standards, and then doesn’t give one penny to actually meet those standards. And we have got to figure out how to do that.
And by the way, I just want to highlight one thing here, is it sounds like we’re saying, oh the federal government should pay for this, the provinces should pay for this. And subtly that’s not exactly what we’re saying. Eight cents of every dollar, every taxpayer pays goes to their municipal government. Ninety-two cents goes to the federal and provincial governments but the money that the federal and provincial governments have comes from city taxpayers. So, in Calgary, for example, my operating budget about $3 billion a year we send $4 billion more, as Calgary taxpayers to Edmonton to the provincial government than we get back in all provincial services. We spend $10 billion a year more to the federal government than we get back in all federal services. So, we’re not begrudging that. It’s not a separatist argument. You know, we have to, as the economic engines of the country, we have to play our part, but we can’t be the economic engines if people can’t get to work, if the waste water systems are breaking down, if there’s no adequate housing. So when we’re asking for money from the feds and provinces, we’re actually asking for some of the money our own taxpayers have paid to be invested in infrastructures so those taxpayers stay here.
Tom Clark:
Can I just bring this back to Mayor Robertson for a second? You were talking about the larger infrastructure needs of the city and you’re quite right, the budget is addressing one of them which happens to be transit, but you pointed out that there’s everything from the waste water we were just talking about to social housing, mobility, companies being able to be productive and competitive, but that’s hard to do if the infrastructure is falling apart. Can you give us some idea of what your total infrastructure deficit is in Vancouver?
Gregor Robertson:
Well in Vancouver, it’s not as far behind as some of the older cities, obviously Toronto, Montreal have much more aging infrastructure and the pressure of intense winters there takes its toll as well. As a country, the last estimate of the infrastructure deficit and this is very dated, this is a decade ago, was $123 billion. And we know it’s far higher that now.
Naheed Nenshi:
Much higher.
Gregor Robertson:
Because we haven’t been keeping up over the past decade, the federal governments, as you say, of all stripes, have been sliding on this for several decades and that means whether it’s the waste water and the water infrastructure that we’re trying to keep up locally or it’s these visionary investments in public transit that deal with traffic congestion. We have to be making those investments to maintain quality of life and to have a successful economy here. And that’s the underpinnings of our success to date and we’ve taken it for granted as a country for several decades. We’re feeling the crunch on the city front right now. We’re the front lines of this and we do allocate, we do cover a majority of the infrastructure spending. We actually cover that cost in municipalities despite having less than 10 per cent of the tax dollar that we collect. We have to maintain that infrastructure for our cities to function and we expect that we’ll get investment from the federal government in particular, who collect half our tax dollars that they’re going to reinvest that into our cities and that essential infrastructure.
Tom Clark:
Back to Calgary for a second, Mayor Nenshi, are you confident that these issues are going to be high enough on the political agenda as we go into a federal election to make a difference?
Naheed Nenshi:
I think it’s the job of citizens to get them there, to make sure that we’re talking about these things because as Gregor says, the numbers are staggering and it’s one of these things where if you keep kicking the ball down the field, hopefully someone else will deal with it later. Didn’t we hear this week that Stephen Harper’s granddaughter will solve all our problems? But these are problems that we cannot leave for future generations. And so, 80 per cent of us live in cities and it’s up to the 80 per cent of us who live in cities to say to all the political parties, you know we’re starting to see the battle lines drawn for this election, and we’re seeing politics of division and politics of fear. And for Canadians to say put it away guys, we need to talk about how we live in this community. We don’t care about the Niqab at the Citizenship ceremony. We care about what each of the parties is going to do to make my commute shorter, to make sure that I can have a decent place to live, to make sure that I can live in a place where my kids can be healthy, really. And Gregor and I are going to do that, and we’ll keep talking about that. But it’s up to the citizens to say this is what I care about.
Tom Clark:
On that note, Mayor Nenshi and Mayor Robertson, I thank you very much for starting this conversation. It’s an important one and I appreciate your contributions.
Naheed Nenshi:
Thank you.
Gregor Robertson:
Thanks, Tom.
Tom Clark:
Well let’s head east now and the mayor who represents the biggest city in this country and that of course is Toronto, and of course it’s Mayor John Tory. Mayor, awfully good to see you. You know we just heard some concerns from some of your fellow mayors, especially out west, that this may not be enough and it may not be coming soon enough. What’s your take on this provision in the budget?
John Tory:
Well, Tom, I look at it this way, it’s taken us 148 years to get the national government of this country to commit to a permanent national, a soon to be billion dollar a year fund to help with public transit, and so, I’ll take yes for an answer. Would we like to have more time or right away? Of course. Would we like to have it all come at once? Of course. But this is the first time any government of any stripe in this country has stepped up and has established a permanent fund for major public transit projects, and I think that’s a big step forward.
Tom Clark:
Mayor Tory, I think you’ve already sort of identified where at least the first tranche of all of this going to go and that is to your Smart Track program, but because you have to share this money with the other mayors and the other cities, in terms of the money that you will be able to access for this, how many kilometres of track is this going to build for you?
John Tory:
Well, Tom, on that particular project which is vital to the public transit interests of the Toronto GTA because it goes through the 416, the City of Toronto, but also into the outlying suburbs. You know we’ve asked for the federal government to pick up one third of the $8 billion cost. So that’s say $2.5 billion and you know, if we get just Toronto share based on say ridership numbers in transit of that billion dollars a year this coming forward, over the time it’ll be enough, I would think to constitute this federal government’s share. But for now, I’m just happy this fund exists. It indicates a commitment on the part of this government. I hope that it will be followed by the other parties so that we know, no matter what the outcome of the election, we’re going to have a first time ever permanent commitment to public transit in major cities across Canada by the government of Canada as rightly should be the case.
Tom Clark:
Let me ask the question that I think a lot of people in Toronto would like to know that with this money, with this new, as you call it, “historic fund” now in place, how soon can the people of Toronto expect that traffic is going to improve?
John Tory:
Well, I mean look at the timetable for SmartTrack. We have a number of transit projects underway in the city right now but SmartTrack itself is going to be a seven year project and we’re sort of six months into the first year, so six and a half years from now, that very major 53 kilometre, 22-station Rapid Transit project will, if I have anything to do with it, be completed…construction will be completed. So, you know, the answer is, it’s going to take years. Some of the projects that are already underway, Tom will be finished in 2020. One major one is then. A new subway that’s being built and is funded by the government will be finished in 2023, so, bottom line, it’s going to take time, and that’s why I’m taking steps in Toronto, as other mayors I think are doing in other cities to improve existing bus service, to take measures to get traffic moving using technology and so on because it’s going to take a while. That’s the price you pay when you take decades off building transit and don’t have the support previous to now of your national government, that’s the price you pay. As things get worse, the congestion gets worse and it takes longer to catch up.
Tom Clark:
John, this may be an unfair question to ask you to answer in 20 seconds but that’s what I’ve got left. Transit is only a small part of the infrastructure deficit that the City of Toronto faces. What is the total infrastructure deficit for Toronto and that includes things like social housing and mobility for people and so on?
John Tory:
Billions. I mean the unrepaired housing is $2 billion. We’ve put up $800 million to get started on it. Then you go on to the sewers and the roads and various things, so it’s billions, Tom. And you know, that remains to be addressed by all these governments, provincial and federal and city, but we’ll take good news when it comes and we’ll take it all one step at a time. And this new national transit fund is a good start.
Tom Clark:
Mayor John Tory of Toronto. Awfully good to have you here, John. Thanks very much.
John Tory:
Thank you, Tom.
Tom Clark:
Up next, high tech companies challenge the government’s security bill. And then, former fighter pilot Laurie Hawn earns his wings on “Plane Talk”.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back. A new and very important set of voices are speaking out against the government’s anti-terror bill. Leaders in the digital sector say that Bill C51 will stifle business and do lasting damage to Canada’s economy. The signatories include the heads of Hootsuite, Slack Technologies and Shopify among others. It’s a who’s who of a booming multi-billion dollar sector in this country.
And joining me now, another name on that list, Michael Litt of Vidyard, the world’s leading video marketing platform and I should note, one that has just raised another $18 million in capital. Michael thanks very much for being here. You know, leaders of the digital economy rarely speak out on political matters and yet here you are. Why?
Michael Litt:
I mean this bill is absolutely very meaningful in that I think the broader population does not fully understand the implications on themselves but also on Canadian businesses in the ICT sector. And a large part of that concern in my perspective is the ambiguity of the bill in the first place, and that it provides absolutely no defence against the freedom of religious or political thought. And the offences that could be made in both of those categories are ambiguous in nature, and so it doesn’t provide any clarity what the government is actually trying to do with this bill.
Tom Clark:
Let me zero in on your sector for a minute though. What damage can this legislation in your view, damage, be done financially, not only right now but in the future to our digital economy?
Michael Litt:
I have a few case studies and a few examples for our own business in that we work with companies all over the world, in Canada and in Europe specifically. And one of the most recent trends in our business is that we actually store some customer data with respect to how they’re viewing videos and where they work etc. as it relates to the organization’s marketing initiatives. And we receive constant requests from these foreign entities, again not located in the US that the content be stored specifically on Canadian servers because these countries do not know, by the Patriot Act, what the US government is doing with this data. And so from my perspective, you know this is an opportunity for Canadian companies. This is a competitive advantage with external markets for Canadian companies that the US businesses simply don’t have and this bill will essentially depreciate that advantage for the data storage, and for the implications that are caused by this bill. I mean there are broader reaching implications for sure with respect to how individual employees and organizations can freely speak about political or religious things on Twitter etc. that could imply hazardous outcome for our business itself, but the broader piece of it is definitely in the storage of data for our foreign customers.
Tom Clark:
Michael, are you even concerned about speaking out publically about this because the vagueness of the bill and the worries that you have that may accrue to you as a result of being a critic of the bill?
Michael Litt:
If the bill had been already passed, I probably would have turned down this interview. And I’m interested in the implications of even doing this in the first place, but I feel passionately enough about the cause that I think it’s worthwhile to have this conversation and hopefully broaden the understanding of the implications of this bill.
Tom Clark:
Michael, in the minute that we’ve got left, give me some idea of why you think the government should pay attention to this group of people in particular? Not a lot of other CEOs in this country have spoken out about this but this is a pretty impressive list. Why are you guys important? Why should the government even listen to you?
Michael Litt:
I think the easy answer is that the index of publically traded tech companies in Canada is very limited. Canada was kind of late to the party in the pre-dot com era. The commodity industry is obviously in some form of suffrage right now and will not last forever. And I believe that the future of the Canadian economy is in ICT, and specifically internet technology businesses. And so this bill threatens the exposure to these companies and the opportunities that exist in front of them. And I’m speaking to you today from Waterloo where there’s 7,200 undergraduates in engineering programs there’s nearly 1,000 start-up companies that currently have a competitive advantage against organizations in the US. ICT is a dog-eat-dog world and I want to see a global opportunity for all of these companies in Canada.
Tom Clark:
Michael Litt of Vidyard, thanks very much for taking the time to talk to us; an important part of the conversation and I appreciate it.
Michael Litt:
Awesome. Thank you very much.
Tom Clark:
Coming up next, what happens when former fighter pilot Laurie Hawn is given a chance to fly during “Plane Talk”? It’s a little bit upsetting.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back. Well here now is a very different episode of “Plane Talk”.
When I take people up in the plane for a little “Plane Talk”, we also have a little time for fun like when I show them what it’s like to experience zero gravity.
Now to go up, you just pull back a little bit like this and you go up.
Elizabeth May:
Woo, okay.
Tom Clark:
And then to go down.
Elizabeth May:
Ohhhhhhhh, Tom!
Jason Kenney:
Oh, woah.
Tom Clark:
And if you want to go down.
Jason Kenney:
Tom Clark:
You okay?
Jason Kenney:
Tom Clark:
And then to go down.
Michelle Rempel:
Tom Clark:
But when I took Edmonton MP Laurie Hawn up for a ride, well, things were a little bit different. You see, he’s a former CF-18 pilot and he had a few tricks of his own.
Well the time has come, sir.
Laurie Hawn:
Alright.
Tom Clark:
So show me how you can transform this plane into a CF-18. I’m going to sit back, relax and enjoy.
Laurie Hawn:
Well, you’re going to have to show me where the afterburner is for openers, what your tolerance is? I don’t know what your tolerance is? Mine’s pretty high.
Tom Clark:
Okay. Okay, that’s pretty good.
Laurie Hawn:
Try somewhere around the middle.
Tom Clark:
I see you know a thing or two about flying.
Laurie Hawn:
Well we’ve got a couple of hours in the cockpit; a little over 7,000 in a variety of machines.
Tom Clark:
Laurie Hawn:
You want a little zero G?
Tom Clark:
Close enough.
Laurie Hawn:
There we go.
Tom Clark:
Whoa okay. Close enough.
Laurie Hawn:
There we go.
Tom Clark:
Whoa okay. Well that brought up a few things that weren’t exactly tied down.
Once we both settled down a little bit, we actually did have time for a little conversation.
What is your greatest fear?
Laurie Hawn:
Tom Clark:
Laurie Hawn:
Tom Clark:
That’s a good thing.
Laurie Hawn:
I think running out of things to do before I run out of life.
Tom Clark:
Laurie Hawn:
Tom Clark:
You’re going to tell me you never lie and that’s probably one of the biggest lies…
Laurie Hawn:
Well I could tell you that but then I’d lie.
Tom Clark:
Exactly, yeah.
Laurie Hawn:
Ah, probably things like have you ever lost a dog fight? No fighter pilot’s ever lost a dog fight.
Tom Clark:
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