THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 31, Season 3
Sunday, April 6, 2014
Host: Tom Clark
Guest Interviews: Andy Blatchford, Tom Mulcair, Andrea Horwath, Mark Kennedy
Location: Ottawa
**Please check against delivery: thewestblock.ca
Tom Clark:
On this Sunday morning, Quebecers are just one day away from making a very big decision. What will the election results mean for the rest of the country? Federal NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair joins us with that.
And, allegations of cover-up in Ontario: who knew what about a billion dollar scandal? How soon will NDP Leader Andrea Horwath bring down the government?
Then, from deep inside Stephen Harper’s trusted circle of advisors to rogue operative; the strange political love story that’s rocking the Conservative party.
It is Sunday April the 6th. I’m Tom Clark in the nation’s capital and you’re in The West Block.
Well one day to go and there is no certain outcome. This Quebec election has been one of the foulest, nastiest contests in decades, perhaps because the stakes are so high; for the parties, for the province and indeed for the country.
Now the latest poll by Leger was released yesterday and it shows a firm lead overall for the Liberals, 38 per cent to 29 for the Parti Quebecois and 23 for the Nationalist Coalition Avenir Quebec.
And joining me now from Montreal is Andy Blatchford of the Canadian Press. Andy thanks very much for joining us. Do you get the sense this morning that Quebecers have made their decision and if so, what do you figure that decision is?
Tom Clark:
Well it seems that this is still very fluid. We see that in this poll, there is still 25 per cent of Quebecers who haven’t firmed up their vote. This could change the outcome tomorrow. We see the Liberals in the lead within striking distance of a majority according to the polls but we also see the third party, the Coalition Avenir Quebec moving upwards as well. Their leader Francois Legault would be quick to tell you that he likes this trend. He sees his party moving forward and he says that there could be a surprise on Monday.
Tom Clark:
Well yeah I think whatever happens Monday is going to be a surprise and you’re right, Legault and the CAQ have been quickly the story of this campaign and their sudden surge. I guess the other part of it is that “R” word; the referendum. I mean who could have guessed at the beginning of this campaign that would dominate the campaign and it would be so toxic?
Andy Blatchford:
Yeah well the “R” word, the referendum word you’re talking about has always been a bit of a tricky issue for the Parti Quebecois. It’s something that in recent years has become less popular among the population but the Parti Quebecois has to continue speaking about it because it is still part of their base, part of their raison d’être. They have to keep those people happy as well. So in this campaign, their star candidate Pierre Karl Peladeau came out and put his fist in the air and said he wanted to make Quebec a country. Now the Parti Quebecois spoke about the referendum for the next two or three days after that, talking about what a sovereign Quebec would look like. They quickly slammed the brakes I think realizing that people don’t want to talk about the referendum right now. This is not something that’s popular. So it seemed to take their campaign off course.
Tom Clark:
Andy you brought up the name Pierre Karl Peladeau and I mean he was a huge figure in this campaign. Probably not a positive one for Pauline Marois but if we look down the road, if Pauline Marois does not win tomorrow night, is it possible, is there word there that Pierre Karl Peladeau may run for the leadership of the PQ? What do you think?
Andy Blatchford:
Well there are some people that think that maybe this is the reason why he came to the Parti Quebecois that perhaps he had his eyes on the leadership eventually because he’s a man who has always been the boss let’s say. This is not a man that a lot of people could see sitting in opposition as a backbencher, even as a cabinet minister for very long. So he could have eyes on the leadership but it is also unclear how much support he would have within the party for such a move and whether he has the patience to be perhaps in opposition and waiting out his chance to lead.
Tom Clark:
Just in the 30 seconds that I’ve got left Andy, the final pitch that Pauline Marois is making, I mean this is her campaign to lose. Is there anything that she can say in the next few hours that might turn around for her?
Andy Blatchford:
It’s unclear what will work but she has been saying things obviously in the last few days to gather support and one of those things a couple of days ago, surprisingly she mentioned tax cuts which she hadn’t mentioned before at all during the campaign and that surprised people. It seems like a classic move to sort of woo the middle class voter. She’s also been warning people that if you vote Liberal you might get the scandal plagued Charest era of politicians that we had just a few years ago. So she is putting warnings out. It is unclear whether there’s enough time for her to turn things around.
Tom Clark:
A little sugar and a little spice to end this amazing campaign. Andy Blatchford of the Canadian Press thanks very much for being here this morning. I appreciate it.
Andy Blatchford:
Thank you.
Tom Clark:
Well joining me now, also from la belle province, is NDP leader Tom Mulcair. Mr. Mulcair awfully good to have you back on the show again. I just want to talk to you a little bit about the election tomorrow in Quebec. You said before this campaign started, that you were convinced that if the PQ got a majority government that there would be a referendum, under Pauline Marois. Do you still believe that?
Tom Mulcair:
I think I always added the word if tragically they got a majority. Yeah, I actually believe that it was the last hoorah of that generation. Madame Marois, whom I’ve known for over 30 years worked for Réné Lévesque. It’s that vision from the ‘70’s that was being projected forward. And Quebecers didn’t like what they were hearing and so we’ll see how that plays out tomorrow. They tried to change their tune and we all remember Pierre Karl Peladeau who was one of her main catches for this campaign doing a fist pump and saying, you know I want Quebec to be a separate country, and it was like a cold shower on her campaign. So it’s interesting to see how a new generation is looking at this quite differently.
Tom Clark:
And if the polls are to be believed, even the francophone community in Quebec reacted badly to the idea of another referendum. But it does bring up the question, as you say, if this is indeed the last gasp of that generation who believed in sovereignty. If the PQ failed to win a majority which at this point at least seems likely, is this the death of separatism in Quebec?
Tom Mulcair:
Biggest mistake anyone can make and I remember other politicians historically in Ottawa making that prediction and it’s a huge mistake. Tom, you’ve lived and worked in Quebec. You know the game. You know I fought for Canada in the 1980 referendum. I fought for Canada in the 1995 referendum. In the first one, I was a lawyer in the justice department and in the second, I was already elected in the National Assembly. I know everything that we stand to lose. But as a Quebecer, I also lived the very divisive nature of those campaigns themselves. It’s divisive for communities. It’s divisive for families. It’s divisive at the workplace and amongst friends. So nobody who’s been through one of those wanted another one and I think that that’s the reaction we’re hearing but at the same time, Quebecers want to make sure that the rest of Canada understands that there is a unique language situation. There’s a unique cultural situation. There’s even a different legal system. We saw the Supreme Court recognize that when they turned down Marc Nadon’s nomination that Stephen Harper so foolishly tried to make. So Quebecers are always going to try to hold onto that and any government that doesn’t understand it and respect it will of course find itself in quick trouble, and that can also play out in the wider population. So we’ve got to be sensitive to that; it’s part of our history.
Tom Clark:
Okay, I want to drag you back to the problems here on Parliament Hill for a second. Despite all the backlash from the experts, virtually every single expert, and the Opposition, we’re coming to the finishing line here of the so-called Fair Elections Act and it looks very much at this point as if the government is going to walk it over that finish line without amendments. What do you think?
Tom Mulcair:
You know Tom, when this one started, I sat down with our senior team and I said that this is the biggest fight of the session. In fact, it’s the biggest fight before the next election and they said well it’s so complicated. How are we going to be able to communicate that? We took it across the country and we saw thousands and thousands of Canadians coming out and agreeing that this was a tragedy because there were two things happening. We’re going to actually make it harder to vote for whole categories of people and we’re going to make it harder to prosecute vote fraud. Now there’s only one party that stood to benefit and that was the Conservatives. A whole new category of unlimited unaccountable spending; that’s what they were setting themselves up for so we’ve done everything we could to fight this. But it’s a relief to hear people as strong and credible as Sheila Fraser coming out and saying look this is about how an independent officer of Parliament does their job, what you’re doing will not lead to fairer elections; quite the opposite. So now that all the experts from across the country have said that, I think that Mr. Harper is going to have to start to listen.
Tom Clark:
Well but does he? I mean look, he’s got a majority government. He’s said that he respectfully disagrees with all those experts. He’s not sounding as if he’s in the mood to make a compromise but why do you think it was that this didn’t catch on as a huge issue across the country, perhaps the way that you were hoping it would?
Tom Mulcair:
Well I think it is now. I think that with the quality and quantity of people who have been saying hold on, stop, you can’t do this, it’s undemocratic. We didn’t have that six, eight weeks ago when this battle started. We have it now. So when you have the current director of elections for Canada, Mark Mayrand saying that. But you even have Jean Pierre Kingsley, the former guy who had taken a first look and said well some of this stuff might be necessary but then when he looked at the fine print he said, woah, woah, woah you can’t do this. You’re hamstringing Elections Canada’s ability to do investigations. You’re stopping us from communicating with the public. Tom, 40 per cent of Canadians stayed home in the last election. Sixty-five per cent of young people, aged 18-25 didn’t vote so we shouldn’t be making it tougher to vote. We shouldn’t be making it tougher for Elections Canada to inform people and that’s precisely what they’re trying to do here. More importantly, they’re also trying to remove any real investigative ability and everybody’s caught them on this. Are they going to have enough temerity to keep pushing through? I’d be surprised. I think that at some point even Stephen Harper has to listen but you know what, it’s all going to be part of what Canadians do get to vote on.
Tom Clark:
Have you done everything you can do now in a parliamentary sense to either have the bill amended or have it pulled? Is this basically the end of the fight?
Tom Mulcair:
Well you know when this fight started, people were telling us there wasn’t much we could do because they had a majority and we’ve seen across the country people rallying. We saw an important Op-Ed written by literally over a 100 constitutional and political science experts from the across the country. That’s the type of pressure that’s been building on this government. There’s a lot that we can continue to do internally and procedurally but ultimately, they do have a majority. But the whole thing is about our democracy, respect for our institutions and we’re just going have to make sure that the Conservatives finish by understanding that.
Tom Clark:
Tom Mulcair, Leader of the NDP and Leader of the Official Opposition. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. I appreciate your time.
Tom Mulcair:
Thanks a lot Tom.
Tom Clark:
Well coming up, Ontario’s gas plant scandal goes national sucking in a top aide to BC Premier Christy Clark. Just how long can Ontario’s government hold on? That’s next.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back. Well the Liberal minority government of Ontario may have just one more month to live. On May 1st, the Liberals will present their budget and at that point their survival will be up for grabs. But meantime, the governing Liberals continue to be rocked by a growing scandal that has seen resignations, a police investigation, and now sees the premier suing the leader of the Opposition. How did we get here? Well here it is your weekly West Block Primer:
Back in 2005, Ontario needed more electricity and the Liberals decided to make it with gas fired generating plants. But by the election of 2011, the locals didn’t want the plants in their neighbourhood. Dalton McGuinty wanted their votes and so he cancelled construction of the plants. It would cost a mere $230 million dollars. Most people thought that was okay. The plants were toast and McGuinty got the votes, and a minority government. But deep in the office of Ontario’s auditor general, numbers were being crunched. The closures would cost not $230 million dollars but closer to $1.1 billion, raising serious questions about who knew what and when, but with denials all round.
Hogan’s Heroes clip: “Oh I see nothing. I was not here. I did not even get up this morning.”
Tom Clark:
Not long after Dalton McGuinty decided this was a pretty good time to retire.
Dalton McGuinty:
It’s time for renewal. It’s time for the next Liberal premier.
Tom Clark:
That next premier has spent a lot of time declaring that she had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Kathleen Wynne:
My office is not under investigation that the investigation is centred on the former premier’s office.
Tom Clark:
And that police investigation is looking into the deletion of emails and scrubbing of hard drives. And in the end, it could answer a lot of the outstanding questions.
Well the Ontario Conservatives and the NDP both wanted the close the plants as well but this they say is a Liberal scandal and it could topple the Liberal government within weeks. And the woman with the power to pull the plug joins us now from Toronto. NDP leader Andrea Horwath. Thanks very much for being here. I appreciate your time.
In your view, does the Liberal party still have the moral authority to govern Ontario?
Andrea Horwath:
Well you know it’s a difficult time for us here in Ontario. The government seems to be flailing around trying to avoid the transparency that they talk about so often. What we’re trying to do as Opposition is dig for the facts, dig for the truth and we’re still having to do that. Notwithstanding that the Liberals talk a good game around transparency; it’s hard for anyone to believe I think that this premier wasn’t aware that OPP officers were…Ontario Provincial Police officers were in the halls of the legislature interviewing people about wiped hard drives on computers. So here we have a scandal yes with the gas plants but even worse of course is the cover-up and that’s always the way. And so notwithstanding how much this premier tries to distance herself from this, I think it’s clear to most people that she had to have known something because the kind of investigations that have been ongoing wouldn’t go on without her knowledge.
Tom Clark:
Well let me just add up a couple of things that you’ve said. I mean you’ve said that she probably knew, in your view. You also say that there is a cover-up going on and yet you have continued to support the government so that it can continue to govern. Is there not a disconnect there?
Andrea Horwath:
Well you know there’s kind of two pieces to our job and one is to try to get results for Ontarians and make sure that we’re focusing on making life better for them so for the first two budget sessions in this minority parliament in Ontario, we were able to at least get the government to commit to doing some things for Ontarians. The other piece of the job of course is the Opposition job of keeping the government’s feet to the fire and holding them to account. At this point in time, we’re in another budget cycle so that’s when the possibility of a confidence motion comes with the budget and so until that budget is tabled and I’ve made a commitment to have a look at that budget before making any determinations. Until that budget is tabled, there is no confidence motion before the House. So I am doing my due-diligence pretty much.
Tom Clark:
But let me say though that some of your critics are saying that your position has more to do with politics than it does with principle because if you look at the latest polls in Ontario: Liberals 36 (per cent), Tories with 33 (per cent) and you’re back at 25 per cent, so bringing down the government politically at this point may not be a win for you.
Andrea Horwath:
Well you know the polls come and go. They change every time there’s a poll. There’s a different number that comes out. That’s not our focus. Our focus has to be making sense of what we have in front of us in terms of our decisions and I take my role seriously. And I take the obligation to Ontarians seriously. So until there’s a budget before me, I’m going to do everything I can to get the answers that people deserve about who knew what and when, and who was or wasn’t being up front about information that people should have had.
Tom Clark:
I’ve only got 30 seconds left but I want you to address the question of the Liberal who’s now in British Columbia, executive director of the BC Liberal party who is not cooperating with the police so far. What do you say about that?
Andrea Horwath:
Well I mean it’s interesting to watch as not only ministers are resigning from the Wynne government right now here in Ontario but operatives that were involved in this cover-up have fled to British Columbia. We’re hoping they come back. We have a committee process in place trying to get the answers for Ontarians. And we’re asking Ms. Clark to encourage those folks to come back to Ontario so that they can answer some of the questions that MPP’s have of them in terms of their involvement with this cover-up.
Tom Clark:
Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath, thank you very much for your time this morning. I appreciate it.
Andrea Horwath:
My pleasure, thank you Tom.
Tom Clark:
Well up next, a rough week for the Conservative party after they axe their second executive director in less than a year. What does this mean for Stephen Harper? That’s coming up next.
Break
Tom Clark:
Welcome back. Dimitri Soudas and Eve Adams, they were the ultimate power couple in Ottawa; he the executive director of the Conservative party and confidante to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, she an up and coming MP from the much coveted 905 area outside of Toronto. But their accusers say they were less Romeo and Juliet and a little bit more Bonnie and Clyde. They contend that he was abrasive, she was abusive and both bullied and threatened their way through party ranks. He’s been fired, she’s being investigated by party and the whole mess has many Conservatives diving under their desks.
Well joining me now to talk about this, Parliamentary Bureau Chief of the Ottawa Citizen Mark Kennedy. Hi Mark, how are you?
Mark Kennedy:
Hi Tom.
Tom Clark:
Almost no one in the Conservative Party is defending Eve Adams. You talk the same way that I do to people up here; nobody’s leaping to her defence. That’s got to tell you something.
Mark Kennedy:
Oh it tells you a lot. You know as much as…. you’re previous segment made reference to Hogan’s Heroes and the fact that people in Ontario watching politicians deny is like, “I know nothing” well here in Ottawa this is like a soap opera. It’s a political soap opera; it’s embarrassing Conservatives. It’s embarrassing the prime minister. It’s driving them nuts. They’re pulling their hair out. Let’s think about this, we have the executive director of the Conservative Party of Canada, one of the loyalist to Stephen Harper. They go back almost a decade. I can count on one hand the people who are that tight with Stephen Harper. He’s given an extremely important job. What’s the job? Get us ready for the next election which is a year and a half from now. And then what happens? He falls in love, he falls in love and he crosses the line, and he doesn’t tell them that he’s crossing the line. Word gets out and it becomes a mess. So what happens? MPs on Parliament Hill are very perturbed, not just with him but the woman in their midst, Eve Adams who they are quite concerned about in terms of the tactics she’s taking in the greater Toronto area.
Tom Clark:
But you know in her area, she still has many supporters. She’s still got a lot of people who say no, no, she hasn’t done anything wrong. She’s followed the rules. Is there a possibility in this that Eve Adams may in fact win this political fight?
Mark Kennedy:
It’s entirely possible and if that happens that could create a real dilemma for not only the Conservative caucus but for the prime minister. And I’m told that she has a strong team in place. There will be two contenders here. We don’t know how it’s going to end but what we do know is that whoever gets that nomination, essentially it’s a ticket back into the House of Commons, either if you’re an MP now or a contender because it’ll likely go to the Tories in the next election. So for the prime minister, he has to ask himself either for Eve Adams or the person who is contending for the race who has caused a lot of embarrassment for the party, do I want these people as part of my team?
Tom Clark:
Well this is it; I mean the type of fight that has gone on between the two factions. I mean they’ve admitted that lines have been crossed; arguments have been heated and so on. They say all this is all normal inside any political party for a nomination that there’s really nothing to see here folks move on. But that doesn’t seem to be the case and if you delve into it because the personalities you were talking about, I mean how much internal damage does this do to the Conservatives?
Mark Kennedy:
It causes…The brand of the Conservative party, ever since Stephen Harper took power is that they are competent. If they have dirty laundry they air it behind closed doors. They don’t do it out in public the way we’re seeing now. And Canadians are constantly being told by Stephen Harper and others, vote for us because we will get the job done and we are competent. We are seeing instances of incompetence here. You don’t do this. Sure there’s no doubt about it. Political races such as this when there are heated nominations occurring in any party, there’s going to be controversy. You’d rather keep that behind closed doors and not have it on the national newspapers…on the front pages of national newspapers and on your broadcast.
Tom Clark:
And I should just point out the pictures of Dimitri and Eva Adams walking dogs. Those weren’t their dogs. They had borrowed them for the photo opportunity.
Mark Kennedy Parliamentary Bureau Chief, Ottawa Citizen. Always good to have you on the show. Thanks very much.
Mark Kennedy:
Thank you.
Tom Clark:
Well just before we go, the government tabled it’s much anticipated Victims Bill of Rights last week. I spoke with Justice Minister Peter MacKay about the bill and he says it is all about adjusting the scales of justice. Have a listen:
Peter MacKay:
What we seek to do here is rebalance or recalibrate. Not taking from the rights of the accused and the presumption of innocence but adding to the rights of victims; to have, as I said, a greater, stronger level of participation, satisfaction that the system is actually working for them, and hearing from them.
Tom Clark:
Well to catch the entire interview with Minister MacKay go to our website:www.thewestblock.ca. And don’t miss Global National tomorrow; I’ll be in Montreal with the very latest on the Quebec election results and their fallout. Well thanks for being with us today. I’m Tom Clark. Have a great week ahead. See you back here next Sunday.
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